Update from Power Apt on cast smart carbs

[udontknowme]

ya the prepay deal seems shady to me also. alot of people jumped on it though. probly with credit card  so they wouldnt be money out of pocket if apt went tits up tomorow.  

from the begining there was set release dates but all of them so far have not panned out. been alot of reasons/excuses what the hold up is. i cant even remeber all the excuses they had. 205 pages worth

i believe they have offered a full refund to any prepay customers but still you would think atleast some of the customers money is funding the project because they know not everybody is gonna pull their money out.

 hard to say if they had good intentions with the prepay or if it was a well designed sales trick. i have my own theory. certainly they would of known prepay would rope in a few more customers that wanted to be first on the block with the supposedly latest and greatest carb setup.

for a while ill bet lectrons phone was ringing off the hook as some poeple didnt wanna wait for the smartcarb so they wanted the next closest thing. kind of funny because before all the smartcarb excitment started about a year ago youd be hard pressed to find a hand full of bikes on ktmtalk with lectrons, and theres something like 10k members.

dont forget this smartcarb stuff is spread to alot of frikin websites. if it deals with atv or motorcycles you can bet theres several threads. the prepay deal must of generated huge amounts of money . the amount of members here is just  a drop in a 55gal bucket compared to some the other sites where apt is trying to pull in customers

[csides66]

Has anyone got their cast APT smart carb yet? If so what do you think... I'm on the fence and I'm waiting to get feedback before I send the cash.

Thanks

[Jerry Hall]

They  talked to me off and on for about two years to become one of their service centers for the vehicles that they would be selling at Sears, Kmart and other willing retailers. They ask me a lot of questions and I ask them a lot of questions.  Initially I sounded like a business venture worth considering.  They claimed to have some farmers and ranchers with deep pockets.  The different guys I talked to on the phone were very evasive and could not or would not answer many of my direct questions about their organization.  A number of the questions that I ask during our phone conversations were about how they were going to organize their operations were not answered.  It seemed like they did not have policies, procedures or people that could handle some of the basic business situations that occur in the normal course of business.  I saw too many red flags, became leery of there operation and decided not to get involved.  I hope the investors do not loose their money.

[udontknowme]

pretty sure the only investors are the prepay customers HAHAHAHAH. which still dont have a carb yet lol

[rablack21]

I think some of you guys may be looking at this the wrong way. The company is not trying to use the preorder folks to "prove" their technology. The carb design is already proven through the billet design. They have competed in the most grueling races, customers have them on their quads and bikes. All that is going on now is that they are making a more affordable design by casting.

On another note, I don't get why so many people are so up in arms or against the "preordering" program of this carb. A multitude of companies including Amazon and almost every major retail market that sells movies, video games, gaming consoles, cell phone, tablets, books, and etc. uses this format. Millions of people pre-order the newest Grand Theft Auto or the newest Call of Duty game and no one blinks an eye to it. But someone sets up a pre-order for an atv part and that makes the company unreliable? If I'm not mistaken, you have to "pre-order" any aftermarket chassis and pay for it far before you get it or see it in person. So I don't see the big deal in pre-ordering a carb. It allows a company to gauge it's first initial demand and act accordingly. It also allows customers to get theirs before the masses do, again just like video games.

That's the way most industries are done these days. It keeps them from having too much cash flow held up in the form of inventory. And as anyone who has been in the manufacturing industry knows, small batch of billet parts are the most costly, casting is cheaper, and die casting quite a bit cheaper but requires alot of volume. They don't quite have the volume demand for die casting yet, so they went with the next best option.

While I am a little disappointed that they have had to push their delivery date back, I haven't seen or heard a decision made that would make me doubt the decision I made to preorder a carb, or I would get my money refunded. I know how it is when venders do not get you parts on time or deliver on promises made. While I write this comment, I am also writing an email to a company vender asking them why they haven't sent me a report they promised to get to me yesterday. I only say that to say this, everything that happens is not always in 1 company's control, therefore, delays happen.

[csides66]

I think some of you guys may be looking at this the wrong way. The company is not trying to use the preorder folks to "prove" their technology. The carb design is already proven through the billet design. They have competed in the most grueling races, customers have them on their quads and bikes. All that is going on now is that they are making a more affordable design by casting.

On another note, I don't get why so many people are so up in arms or against the "preordering" program of this carb. A multitude of companies including Amazon and almost every major retail market that sells movies, video games, gaming consoles, cell phone, tablets, books, and etc. uses this format. Millions of people pre-order the newest Grand Theft Auto or the newest Call of Duty game and no one blinks an eye to it. But someone sets up a pre-order for an atv part and that makes the company unreliable? If I'm not mistaken, you have to "pre-order" any aftermarket chassis and pay for it far before you get it or see it in person. So I don't see the big deal in pre-ordering a carb. It allows a company to gauge it's first initial demand and act accordingly. It also allows customers to get theirs before the masses do, again just like video games.

That's the way most industries are done these days. It keeps them from having too much cash flow held up in the form of inventory. And as anyone who has been in the manufacturing industry knows, small batch of billet parts are the most costly, casting is cheaper, and die casting quite a bit cheaper but requires alot of volume. They don't quite have the volume demand for die casting yet, so they went with the next best option.

While I am a little disappointed that they have had to push their delivery date back, I haven't seen or heard a decision made that would make me doubt the decision I made to preorder a carb, or I would get my money refunded. I know how it is when venders do not get you parts on time or deliver on promises made. While I write this comment, I am also writing an email to a company vender asking them why they haven't sent me a report they promised to get to me yesterday. I only say that to say this, everything that happens is not always in 1 company's control, therefore, delays happen.

+1 ^^^ I agree, but I'm going to hold off until i see "Dirt Smile" pictures of you guys that have pre-ordered.

[rablack21]

+1 ^^^ I agree, but I'm going to hold off until i see "Dirt Smile" pictures of you guys that have pre-ordered.

lol. fair enough. I will certainly give a full review of it when I get mine in including pictures and video, even if it is snowing here.

[udontknowme]

if the billet version  was so great then why not just make a identical casting and call it a day ?  seems simple enough

i think the real story is they were having all kinds of tuning and design issues which can be seen on the 200+ pages of ktmtalk

something else that not many people are aware of but apt took in all those prepay customers (likely several thousand) and they werent even a site sponsor. finally the mods said  pay up or get the F out. few days back i seen there was a apt banner but today i dont see it. maybe they pulled the plug and moved on to other website to peddle more prepay garbage

[rablack21]

if the billet version  was so great then why not just make a identical casting and call it a day ?  seems simple enough

i think the real story is they were having all kinds of tuning and design issues which can be seen on the 200+ pages of ktmtalk

A cast part can't be identical to a billet part. The casting process doesn't work that way, but they are very similar in design. I am aware of the stories that went on with ktm talk. Yes, I have read all 200+ pages. This is what got me interested in the carb to begin with. Yes, there have been found to be some issues along the way, some due to installer, some due to manufacturer. But the company has always offered a full refund to anyone who was unhappy with their product. That doesn't sound like a shady company to me.

[udontknowme]

gimme a break dude. they can cast it close enough and machine to fine tolerances like they do with millions of other cast components.  the fact is the billet wasnt worth a shit or they would of made the cast version just like it and had it in the hands of customers already.

[05450r]

Im not being a smartass, I just havent done any of the research. But what I never understood from the beginning was, why not just offer the billet only, but at a cheaper cost. Throw a piece of alumn in the cnc, hit a few buttons and sit and watch vs new development, tooling, extra labor costs, foundry, etc. Just for a few thousand carbs. It just doesnt seem cost effective, maybe after its (casting cost investment) paid for itself it would be cost effective but thays alot of carbs to sell to get to that point

[rablack21]

gimme a break dude. they can cast it close enough and machine to fine tolerances like they do with millions of other cast components.  the fact is the billet wasnt worth a shit or they would of made the cast version just like it and had it in the hands of customers already.

My apologies on the cast versus billet. We won't get into that.
You say that the billet ones aren't worth a crap, have you ever tried one? I have. There's atleast one of our members that has one and it works fantastic.
Not trying to argue with you , but you shouldn't down it if you haven't atleast tried it

[rablack21]

Im not being a smartass, I just havent done any of the research. But what I never understood from the beginning was, why not just offer the billet only, but at a cheaper cost. Throw a piece of alumn in the cnc, hit a few buttons and sit and watch vs new development, tooling, extra labor costs, foundry, etc. Just for a few thousand carbs. It just doesnt seem cost effective, maybe after its (casting cost investment) paid for itself it would be cost effective but thays alot of carbs to sell to get to that point

Eric, you know as well as I do that it is very expensive to make billet parts, especially ones that have such small edges and crevices. Making billet parts cheaper is not very easy no matter how many you run. Even though they are offering these carbs as aftermarket, their plan has always also been to get OE manufacturers to put them on their stock bikes. OEM's will not add that kind of cost into their new stock bikes. Besides, Keihin and Mikuni are die cast already(I believe). It's hard to compete with those prices unless you are doing the same. Plus, the smart carb design is constantly evolving like most new products. Right now, they are looking into making a more universal design for their die cast carbs. The idea is making one uni-body carb that can be final machined for 36mm,38mm,40mm, or custom sizes. And they will each take a difference slide. This is just a little FYI for those of you that didn't know this. The idea seems pretty cool.

[05450r]

Thank you, the uni body makes sense to build if they can get it right, cost wise. I honestly had no idea what they are doing, Im an Air Strker guy, or Fcr now..LOL

[udontknowme]

looks like everyone got bored with the smartcarb thread over there since they havent posted in over a  month. what the lastest release date. spring next year ?