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Author Topic: APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips  (Read 15492 times)

Offline rablack21

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« on: November 20, 2014, 10:00:54 AM »
I started a new thread with this information to make it a little easier to search for it specifically. This information is from Corey (VP of Development at APT).

"The Lectron and the SmartCarb are each a very fine example stemming from the original Edmonston designed single circuit flat slide carburetor. The distinctions however between the Lectron and the SmartCarb span nearly 45 years of development with no less than five other varieties in between. These less known iterations include the EI Blue Magnum, the Daytona Quicksilver I and Quicksilver II's, Edelbrock Quicksilver, AFT and finally theSmartCarb.

William H. "Red" Edmonston and I were partners at the time of his passing and most of the development work for the SmartCarb took place at the University of Wyoming in our 2 stroke research and development laboratories. Red clearly understood the limitations of a single circuit system and the fundamental flaw imposed by a more or less round throat venturi. The trough or valley at the bottom of an Edmonston designed venturi was quite well understood by this time and it can be found on a Lectron. It is this feature that led to what was really the beginning of our understanding the importance of concentrating and accelerating as much of the actual airflow through the venturi, right at the base of the metering rod and nozzle interface as possible, at all throttle positions. In a more or less round venturi, the rate of throttle opening from idle to half open is exponentially divergent, meaning it’s getting much larger, faster, the farther you open it. From half to wide open, however, the lines of the circle are converging and the rate of opening is slowing even though you are now almost wide open. This causes the pressures through the venturi to swing wildly as you move the throttle slide bottom to top and vice versa, which in turn causes the signal to the metering rod to fluctuate, and unless corrections are made by altering the angle of the metering rod crisp throttling and consistent fueling suffers.

(Signal referred to here is the negative value created by the piston displacing air as the engine cycles, creating a pressure drop within the venturi as air rushes in, thus allowing atmosphere to push fuel up through the nozzle, past the surface of the metering rod and into the intake airstream. In the case of a metering rod carburetor this signal is also read by the flat of the metering rod which creates another secondary low pressure zone.)

The difficulty of putting very accurate changes in angle along a 1/8” surface of a metering rod is maddening and is Lectron’s biggest challenge. This is one reason Lectrons are most noted as a drag racing carburetor and was a place they were found to work really well. Today I do believe they have made tremendous progress in metering rod development and the addition of a power-jet has made their job a little easier. IF all the angles are correct, for the right engine, and the PJ is set correctly they work really well through the whole range much better than a conventional carburetor.

Red felt the better solution was to shape the venturi as such that we could maintain an even pressure against the metering rod through the whole range of throttling. The question was how to do that without giving up a lot of flow and limit the carb’s full potential size for size. He understood laminar flow very well and we did a lot of experimenting with lead in curves to control airflow and get the carburetor to gulp a lot of air, even though the neck of the venturi was unconventionally restrictive. We also added a nose to the slide to further direct and compress airflow leading into the metering rod. What really tipped the scales technology wise though is the ambient air density correction circuit and how it interrelates to the venturi. Most people understand this to be the altitude correction circuit, which it is, but it is really much more. It provides an instantaneous dynamic balance between the pressures the throat of the carburetor is actually seeing and the ambient air pressure against the top of the fuel in the float bowl in all conditions. Perhaps a more familiar term people recognize for this effect is Manifold Absolute Pressure and is something that all modern closed loop EFI systems rely on for correcting air/fuel ratios with changes in ambient air density. Apart from the venturi shape this feature alone is what allows the SmartCarb to only need a single angle grind metering rod, and in most cases a common grind across a very large variety of products and applications. This circuit also acts much like a power jet at the very top end when the static pressure being applied to the fuel in the float bowl also becomes dynamic and liquid flow lift ensues, hammering fuel up the nozzle directly proportional to total flow through the venturi. This is actually much superior to a power jet in that it remains finely atomized, because it is after all still using the main (and only) circuit, whereas a power-jet is literally throwing fuel on the fire and is emitted as almost pure liquid when it enters high into the air stream. This isn’t the worst thing, however it does dramatically affect Lectron’s full potential for fuel economy gains, altitude compensation and emissions reductions and it effectively makes it yet another multi circuit carburetor.

The drawback to the SmartCarb air density correction circuit is lack of a float bowl overflow and the necessity of tip over valves, along with the additional problems they create. The performance benefits the system offers are more than worth the effort though and the tip over valves, along with additional functionality to further protect our patents for the scoop and venting system, offer a very desirable side benefit in that now the carburetori s completely sealed. Certification testing shows the SC to be the lowest evaporative emissions carburetors ever test. Plus there is no raw fuel spillage on the ground and it fits very conveniently into the new epa tip over ruling for motorcycles. Who’d of known they were about to implement that? We are continuing to improve the system and are implementing changes to eliminate sticking issues.

With all of that said, I have just one more thing. Make no mistake, Lectron is not our competition. Our competition is all modern fuel systems worldwide, electronic or mechanical. Here’s why; any emissions reduction strategy requires a fuel system that is able to two things very well. Finely atomize fuel and maintain extremely accurate air/fuel ratios. TheSmartCarb simply does those two things better than anything else we currently know of period, and it does it without electronics. For instance we are in the second leg of EPA Tier II and ARB on road emissions certification for Zaeta’s TM powered 530 DT motorcycle (google it). This is TM’s open enduro race 4t engine they have attempted to prior certify in North America themselves. They have tried twice , both times using two precious metal catalysts and a race TMXX Mikuni downdraft, both times unsuccessful. APT is actually touching on Euro III numbers with this bike and is passing EPA and ARB easily with just our new 40mm side pull FCR replacement carburetor and no cats. In fact we are under Tier II CO emissions by nearly 90% and HC and Nox 38% and 16% respectively all this with a 28% gain in fuel economy. This is no joke and these aren’t the types of things you are hearing about in the forums and possibly in a lot of people’s minds on a performance related forum this may not seem like a big deal at all. But actually it is everything. "

Offline rablack21

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 08:58:38 AM »
The SC does not need a power-jet. The float bowl pressurization circuit is a much more effective way to control top end fueling and provides the same very fine atomization as the rest of the range. At the very top end of RPM's the pressure being exerted against the fuel in the float bowl begins to move from static pressure into dynamic liquid flow and fuel is being squirted up the nozzle by the 200+ MPH air pressure being rammed into the scoop. The real beauty is that the forces driving the fuel are exactly proportional to the air pressure flowing into the engine. Same applies for adding boost.

Offline rablack21

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 09:15:49 AM »
The SC is almost completely signal based and in a lot of cases is fairly indifferent to the metering rod as long as it's not critically too lean. The range of metering rods we have ever used in the 36,38 and 40mm carbs, with exception of alcohol, nitro, boosted and a few odd applications, amounts to four sizes. All the same grind length, (we did toy with some shorter rods (same grinds) when the cast 38s came out, but results were not as favorable as we hoped and we resorted back to the longer rods which are the same as the billets). 082", .080", .078" and .076" tip thickness - 2.357" grind on a 3.583" metering rod.

Offline rablack21

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 09:16:50 AM »
See below
Quote from: SmartCarb;46436
And therein lies the fundamental difference between the SC and every other predecessor. You need to understand Mikuni, Keihin and many others learned a lot of what we take for granted from Mr. Edmonston. He lived the remainder of his life competing against his own technology. Story goes though he's on a jet leaving Detroit shortly after selling Lectron to GM. It was raining with fog, he was watching the leading edge of the wing and of course with vapor we all can see laminar flow form as the airstream straightens itself and accerates over the leading edge and curve of the wing. Same thing with hearding the air into the throat of an SC, and years later we put it into practice. If you look closely you will see a decided curve leading into the venturi, this accelerates, straightens and begins to compress the air and greatly helps our cause to stuff more air through an otherwise fairly constrictive throat. Naturally, with any carburetor true to Bernoulli the idea is to create as high of a compression zone as possible without choking flow and causing stall, thereby increasing flow to maximum velocity and achieve the strongest venturi vacuum you can. Ok we all get that. To answer your question, it has always been understood that you want to create turbulence (mixture motion) along the intake to aid atomization and fuel suspension. This is only true however after the fuel has been introduced into the airstream and some surface roughness (not wall uneveness) helps keep everything mixing.

With the SmartCarb, we promote laminar flow as a means to create very high velocity and compression under the slide so that we can utilize a single fueling circuit. The atomization in an SC is created by the metering rod and not pre-emulsion through a pilot jet at idle and further emulsion though the nozzle at wide open, as it is with a conventional carburetor. In these carburetors any extra turbulence is welcome because they are so poor at atomization. With an SC because the fuel is delivered from the metering rod above the airstream, the fuel is carried as a vapor plume into the engine and doesn't need a lot of assistance to maintain suspension. Great news is this allows you to hog more air through your engine with an SC or run a slightly larger venturi and not suffer the all too easy consequences of flow stall, causing fuel to fall out of suspension. To a certain degree of course this happens in all engines, but the farther you can carry the bulk mix into the combustion chamber, the closer the actual trapped air/fuel ratios are to those as delivered by the carburetor. Then you really begin to narrow the gap with Direct fuel injection and the goal of minimizing fuel consumption is best served. Combine that with Kadenecy effect bulk transfer of the mix in modern two strokes and you see where this is all headed. Move further along with Sonic-Flow Engine tech with variable geometry plumbing and things really begin to look pretty bright and a new lease on uncomplicated 2t's may be coming along.




Offline rablack21

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 10:42:17 AM »
New Smart Carb tuning video as of 11-24-14
[video=youtube;IAnK4qSlowQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAnK4qSlowQ[/video]

Offline rablack21

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 02:27:01 PM »
The following information I compiled from the above video and conversations with Corey. I will update as I receive more.

Tips for tuning:
1. When you first install your SC(Smartcarb), run it for about 4 hours BEFORE making any clicker adjustments. Adjust only idle screw to achieve an idle for the time being until after the break in  process. Take note of where the idle screw was initially set at. You will got back to again.
2. If you have calipers, check the distance between the top of the slide and the bottom tip of the FMR(fuel metering rod). It should be set at approx. 3.855 inches. If you don't have calipers, take note of the height of the slide opening with the slide in the idle position (slide in the carb resting on the idle screw). The gap should be about 2mm. See the video @17 minutes in. (He doesn't mention the 2mm, we have talked about it before) Again, this is just the starting point before any clicker adjustment has taken place.
3.Once you have put about 4 hours on your carb and the engine is warmed up, set the idle screw back to where it was set initially; then take note of the following to see if the clicker needs adjustment:
NOTE: Use the clicker to make any initial idle adjustments first, then the idle screw. Idle screw is more for fine tuning of the idle
A. If the engine bogs on a sudden whack open of the throttle, the setting is a little lean.
B. If it's burbly on tip in or real low throttle (barely opening of the throttle), the setting is a little rich.
C. If you are holding the clutch in and put the quad in gear from neutral and the idle drops, the setting is lean.
D. If you have the idle screw where it was set from the factory (2mm slide opening) and the idle is too high, adjust the clicker richer(clockwise) until it settles     down
E.  If you have the idle screw where it was set from the factory (2mm slide opening) and the idle is too low, adjust the clicker leaner (counter clockwise) until the idle comes up to an acceptable level.
NOTE: Tips A,B, and C go hand in hand with tips D and E. Only adjust clicker richer or leaner to obtain proper idle as long as it isn't negatively affecting tip in or low speed throttle. If it does, go back one click and then use the idle screw to obtain the idle to your liking. This will ensure proper low speed performance with also getting a good, smooth idle.
F. Obviously once you install the carb, you can no longer measure the 2mm slide opening. The equivalent of this is .955" from top of idle screw to side of body of carb for cast carbs. (.730" for billet)
G. This won't apply to most people, as the metering rod is already set for most machines, but is still good info. If the engine power is flat on the top end (engine revs out by doesn't FEEL like you are going any faster), you probably have a lean condition. This will call for a richer rod. Contact Corey at APT and notify him of your condition. He will assist with what you need.
H. If the engines gurgles/studders from 1/2 throttle to WOT in all gears, you have a rich condition. You probably need a leaner rod. This will be very noticeable as it will FEEL like it has the choke on and the engine doesn't sound very crisp.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 10:08:52 AM by rablack21 »

Offline Pumashine

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 01:03:04 PM »
Quote from: rablack21;46527
New Smart Carb tuning video as of 11-24-14

In the video the measurement of the top of the slide to the bottom of the FMR is supposed to be 3.855". When checking the new 40mm billet I just received the measurement is 3.955". Is this .100" discrepancy a error is my new carb set wrong? This is set to about 85 clicks from rich from APT. But is real close to the 3.980" I was at when the meltdown occurred on thew 431 puma.
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline Jerry Hall

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 06:52:53 PM »
Quote from: rablack21;46527
New Smart Carb tuning video as of 11-24-14
[video=youtube;IAnK4qSlowQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAnK4qSlowQ[/video]



Where are you obtaining your O2 samples in the bike in the video? Are you collecting your sample after it discharges from the muffler, using a sniffer tube inserted through the muffler or through a hole drilled somewhere in the expansion chamber or do you have the O2 sensor sampling directly from a welded in bung somewhere in the expansion chamber?

Offline Burns363R

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 08:05:59 PM »
I think in the video you can see a o2 bung in the expansion chamber
TRX 363R 02- Laeger Narrow Frame/CR500 Link, Motowoz Suspension, Roll Design +4 LT Arms,RPM Dominator +4 axle, LED 363 MX, LED 350G Pipe, 38 A/S CR Ignition

TRX 370R 86- Laeger Std,ISF-No Link Swinger, JD MGC LT Arms) Motowoz Shocks, LED 370/350D pipe, 38 A/S Carb, 200w OEM Ignition

Offline DnB_Racing

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 08:15:39 PM »
Quote from: Burns363R;46869
I think in the video you can see a o2 bung in the expansion chamber

yes at 4.28 you can see the o2 sensor on the right hand side of the bike

Offline fearlessfred

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 08:46:36 PM »
I got to ask are there any gains in horsepower or torque to be had with this carb,or is it the ease of tuning it that attract people to buying it.Maybe I'm just to old ,but I don't get it

Offline Pumashine

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 09:07:18 PM »
Quote from: fearlessfred;46874
I got to ask are there any gains in horsepower or torque to be had with this carb,or is it the ease of tuning it that attract people to buying it.Maybe I'm just to old ,but I don't get it
I believe its if you get best fuel optimization and  peak performance in all throttle positions that sets this carb apart.
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline fearlessfred

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 09:22:38 PM »
Thanks tony, no offence to anyone but it makes me think of Cannondale and the fact that they could have been successful with one more year of testing before releasing to the public. I bought a Cannondale but I don't think I will own one of these.

Offline Jerry Hall

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2014, 10:24:47 AM »
Are different size float valve seats available so that the carbs can be used with higher or lower fuel pressure to the carb?

Offline SmartCarb

APT Smart Carb: History, Design, and Tuning Tips
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 11:40:34 AM »
Quote from: Pumashine;46846
In the video the measurement of the top of the slide to the bottom of the FMR is supposed to be 3.855". When checking the new 40mm billet I just received the measurement is 3.955". Is this .100" discrepancy a error is my new carb set wrong? This is set to about 85 clicks from rich from APT. But is real close to the 3.980" I was at when the meltdown occurred on thew 431 puma.

Tony,

3.855" is a fairly typical number for the Cast 38mm's and where this particular Cast 38 (w/ Q-11 .080 MR) in the video was set when it was first run in.

I have  Q-11 @ 3.950" written down on my sheet for your recent 40mm. I hope we were clear on your information when you ordered this carb, any and all specifics you can give us when ordering help us to get something to you that is very close. I didn't see anything specific to a mod on this build sheet, is why I ask, and likely a Q-11 MR would not be correct. My cell number is in the video but for quick reference: 307-761-1251. Please call me.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 12:17:27 PM by SmartCarb »

 

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