TRX250R.ORG

Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: zedicus on May 24, 2019, 10:57:22 AM

Title: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on May 24, 2019, 10:57:22 AM
this is a side project i have been working on for years, i have in the past produced a ton of 250R parts myself and also had 2 other manufactures make parts of my design. from air box removal brackets to aluminum intake manifolds, tie rods and motor mounts, exhaust flanges etc.   i have started on the designs for billet case halves and there would be optional features you could choose for cylinder mounts. say you wanted to use a cr500 jug for a lower cost 500cc build.   

it looks like 1500$ for a bare block of metal for a case half, and i still have a bit of design investment but i am sure i would cover that, so essentially the case halves would be for sale at cost of time and materials. (ball park of 4000$ full set, with a small discount on standard trx250r jug pattern probably)

there is no real benefit to billet cases over cast and finish machined. unless you did want to run a cr500 or polaris 400 top end, but with the sphynx and sabertooth and pro-x stuff all still relatively available there is not much of a need for that customization work either.   the other benefit is that i could do a run of 10 sets instead of 100 or more like the casting manufactures want to do. so i can reproduce them with a smaller initial investment. 

my question is are these viable yet or is there still enough aftermarket that billet cases are not needed?   (i have been out of the loop a while working on other projects, your input is highly appreciated.)

Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: 2Nubs on May 24, 2019, 11:26:23 AM
It would be awesome to see some billet blocks. I can't say I would personally be in the market for them, but I bet some duners and drag racers would be.

Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: F-Red on May 24, 2019, 12:09:28 PM
Nice to see others stepping up. There are options available. ESR has made new casting halves. Panthera makes cases for their CR500 engine. Needing billet cases for the 250r, would probably be a small group. At those prices, most of us will improvise. This is just one guys opinion. How about making some all aluminum heel guards? There is a definite market for those.

Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: Hawaiiysr on May 24, 2019, 12:59:45 PM
not to get off the subject but do you mind sharing some of your previously made R parts?
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on May 24, 2019, 04:53:16 PM
i think i have an unfinished intake and maybe a exhaust flange left from the last run of things.   i will see what is laying around and post something.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on May 24, 2019, 10:52:15 PM
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2yuelad.jpg)

Last step is done with hand held power tools, like finish porting or polishing, etc. Tie rod, intake, exhaust.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: croat1 on May 25, 2019, 11:54:45 AM
there are enough used oem, NOS, and take out oem that billet cases aren't needed at the moment.  Mat'l, design time (reverse engineering) and machining a part such as billet cases isn't going to be a big seller at the price points you mention.  I'm sure a few would sell but not many.

used oem (damaged cases) are being repaired by Rob Selvy, Dave Moore and Pete (Hybrid).....and I'm sure many more.   Dave Moore is dedicating shop equipment just for cases repair. 

Joe
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: Tbone07 on May 27, 2019, 03:32:17 PM
Ya I don't want to be a buzzkill, as I'm sure the billet cases you would produce would be stellar. But it sounds like one of those situation where people would be all over it, then you'd go through the trouble of making everything, and people would crap out at the end.

There's enough out there right now where case halves aren't at a crisis status. And it sounds like ESR will be producing their cases again in the near future.

Now if you could come up with a high quality cast option, and compete with ESR that would be great. More competition the better.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: Hawaiiysr on May 27, 2019, 05:21:23 PM
billet quick change clutch cover? or maybe the rings and the cover so stock covers can be made into quick change covers?
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on May 31, 2019, 06:07:44 PM
when i looked into doing cast cases they needed me to order 100 or more of each side and then i would need to finish machine them.   that is out of my investment range.

i could do quick change rings and covers i am sure.  maybe even a full clutch cover, i will look into that.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: hickwheeler on June 01, 2019, 03:06:40 AM
Yes the parts to make QC covers would be good
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: The norm on June 01, 2019, 08:04:14 AM
I would be very interested in the qc parts!
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on June 03, 2019, 12:18:30 PM
i think i could use standard flat stock aluminum plate and have them cut the rings and cover on the CNC plasma cutter.    they would not be as fancy as actual billet parts but it would be just as strong and 1/3rd the cost.    is their an argument against doing that or is this a 'BILLET OR BUST' part?

to make it a little fancier the top cover could be cut out of diamond plate.

thoughts or concerns?
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: jcs003 on June 04, 2019, 11:08:40 AM
would you be using at least 1/2" material?  they need to be threaded, or have inserts to accept the cover.  tolerance might also need to be considered, since a stock cover will need to be modded to receive the parts.

just a couple thoughts.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on June 05, 2019, 02:55:34 PM
it would probably be 1/2" for the ring and 1/4" for the cover.    a machined edge on the ring for welding to the clutch cover.   and then tapered head bolts and machined receivers on the quick change cover.   i will try to build a bill of materials out  and start working on cost and retail pricing next week.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on June 07, 2019, 04:39:46 PM
the thought came to my mind to just make a weld on ring that the CR250 top cover could bolt too.   i am going to explore that idea also.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: jcs003 on June 08, 2019, 09:28:01 AM
a weld-less solution would be great.

any aircraft industry guys out there can can offer some insight into those high temp aircraft aluminum adhesives?
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: zedicus on June 13, 2019, 04:30:37 PM
i found a junk clutch cover to measure and start working on.  we shall see what creativity hits me.
Title: Re: enough demand for billet cases yet?
Post by: broken1 on June 16, 2019, 12:03:44 AM
the thought came to my mind to just make a weld on ring that the CR250 top cover could bolt too.   i am going to explore that idea also.

The CR cover is a cool idea but without the recess for the kicker knuckle it might be hard to adapt for use on a forward kick engine.