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FAQ's & Technical Articles => FAQ's, How-To Guides & Useful Information => Topic started by: rsss396 on July 04, 2013, 08:56:42 PM

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 04, 2013, 08:56:42 PM

well I thought I would post some of this info for referance

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/DLRACINGCR250CR125TIMINGGRAPH_zpsd173c2d4.jpg)

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/250rtimingcurves1986-1988.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/graph9.jpg)


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/BDTand2001CR250ampCR125curves_zps9ac5d526.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 04, 2013, 09:00:20 PM

I just want to note that the under 1000-1500rpms on my older graphs may not be exactly right, the graph when you start out at 0 degrees and 0 rpm ramps up to the first whole number.
I kind of lost my notes of exactly when these cdi's turned on but in the case of the new cr125-250 ignitions they turn on and start at 9 degrees of advance.
Sorry for the confusion

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 12:13:33 AM

I want to add these maps to show you the possiabilites with differant cdi boxes yet the same amount of total timing at peak rpm.
If you look at most single cylinder 250-500cc motors in atv's they normally peak around the 8500 rpm mark.
Obviously some are less and other are more and that does not mean they do not rev more but 8500 is usually very close to the peak and the rest is over-rev.
So all these curves meet at 8500 from this while on the dyno you can decide by adjusting the stator plate or changing to another CDI to add or take away timing before and after to create a wider powerband.
Basicly any year CDI, TRX or CR can be adjusted on the dyno at peak rpm to make the exact same HP, but by changing the curve you can build power before and after peak.




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25014DEGREESGRAPH_1_zpse681e098.jpg)





(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25016DEGREESGRAPH_1_zps4e6d84bf.jpg)





(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25018DEGREESGRAPH_1_zps38d8d404.jpg)





(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25020DEGREESGRAPH_1_zpsa2cf4bd8.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 12:26:14 AM

Just want to add that 2002-2003 CR125 cdi need to have a external grounded kill switch circuit, the 00-01 ground internally in the CDI.
If you do not add a ground then the kill circuit does not work but the CDI will fire and run the engine.
The external ground does not effect the 00-01 CDI so once you add a ground any year box will work

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 08:03:55 AM

these maps show what happens when you advance the stator plate



2000 cr250 CDI


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/2000CR250ADVANCEDGRAPH.jpg)






2001 cr250 CDI



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/2001CR250ADVANCEDGRAPH.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 08:06:21 AM

Here is a 250R VORTEX these have 10 maps built in them, unfortantly during the short time I had this my bench tester burned up a circuit board and I did not get all 10 maps


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/TRX250RVortexignitioncurveMaps1-6.jpg)




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/TRX250RVortexignitioncurveMaps178.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 11, 2013, 11:43:32 PM

Thought I would post up Jim's CR250 ignition with a lighting coil timing curve compared to the 2001 cr250-cr125

System seams to be of a nice quality not sure who builds it but it does seam to be the same manufacture Service Honda uses for the cr500 ignition.
When I went to the Service Honda website the wire schematic matched perfectly and looks to be simular.

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/BDTand2001CR250ampCR125curves_zps9ac5d526.jpg)


here is a picture of the BDT flywheel compared to a 2001 CR250 flywheel, BDT's flywheel has a 200 gram weight added to it.
That would make the the bike feel closer to a stock style flywheel but probably still rev quicker since its much smaller diameter


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00001_zps4aac4c2e.jpg)



BDT flywheel on the scale

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00003_zpsf62768f2.jpg)


Stock 2001 CR250
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00002_zps3f6ffa31.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 12, 2013, 12:03:16 AM

Thanks Dan!

here is what the CDI and stator look like along with the adapter plate

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00001_zpsdb41fb67.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 14, 2013, 05:38:16 PM

heres is the Service Honda / BDT lighting coil CR ignition with added timing


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt2_zps07a6d8d0.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt4_zpsc5c66e74.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt6_zpsb954cee8.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt8_zps9bce24e4.jpg)

Title: 2002-2003 cr250 ignition w/esr's mounting plate
Post by: rsss396 on October 21, 2013, 08:22:25 PM

Here is the results from the ESR mounting plate and 2002-2003 CDI's The curves kind of surprised me that they were shaped like they were but I double checked everything and this is what I came up with


Here is the 00-03 CR250 CDI's grouped together:

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR2502000-2003TIMINGGRAPH_zps738a02e9.jpg)





Here is with the 00-01 CR125's added in:



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR250-CR1252000-2003TIMINGGRAPH_zpsd77fc1e7.jpg)






Here is what the 02 and 03 boxes look like with advance built in by adjusting the stator plate, the stator plate will allow you to add about 4 degrees of advance.




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/01-03cr25000-01cr125graphs_zpsb0256615.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on February 08, 2014, 09:54:20 AM

UPDATE:
I had a chance to check a actual Service Honda ignition last weekend and as predicted it mapped exactly the same as the BDT ignition, but there is one difference in the kit and that is the fact that they have a stator mounting plate that works on the cr500 not the cr250.
So in order to use a Service Honda kit you will have to swap the stator mounting plate or machine the service Honda plate larger to the size of the cr250.
Just one note in order to swap the stator plate to a cr250 you would have to cut the wires of the stator and re-solder them after mounting the stator on the new plate

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on February 08, 2014, 10:17:06 AM

(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/105_542_2017-04-18_4479.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on April 14, 2014, 09:28:00 PM

I have checked Jon's 1998 CR250 ignition looks pretty good its pretty consistent with the 00-01 curves with about 2 degrees less advance so all Jon needs to do is advance the stator plate a couple degrees and he will be almost exactly the same.



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/980001CR250IGNITIONCURVES_zps54452f88.jpg)






(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/9800010203CR250IGNITIONCURVES_zps6fa1b05b.jpg)

Title: Timing curves
Post by: turtlesteak on June 08, 2014, 10:51:44 PM

Thanks heaps.

Title: Timing curves
Post by: 5thgeartapped on July 09, 2014, 09:17:03 PM

Will a 2003 cr 125 cdi  work on a 2001 cr  125

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on July 10, 2014, 09:09:55 AM

Quote from: 5thgeartapped;38654

Will a 2003 cr 125 cdi  work on a 2001 cr  125

yes but you must ground the kill circuit when running the 2002 and up CDI, take and run a ground wire to the solid black wire of the harness. if you do not ground it the engine will not shut off

Title: 1996 CR500R Timing Curve Chart
Post by: bobhartman on March 21, 2015, 10:32:54 AM

Quote from: rsss396;38674

yes but you must ground the kill circuit when running the 2002 and up CDI, take and run a ground wire to the solid black wire of the harness. if you do not ground it the engine will not shut off

The automatic QUOTE above is not the subject of my reply.

What a great thing you have done to post all these timing curves.   No where else in the entire world, but here is this info available-and it is in such high quality.


I would like to know for sure that the 1996 CR500 Timing Curve you posted is in fact an OEM timing curve for the 1996 CR500.  Can you confirm that please?

This motor will go into an old TZ250G chassis left over from my racing days. All up weight will be less than 240 lbs, 75 whp & a 52 inch wheelbase, it should be a lot of fun.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.     Bob

Title: Timing curves
Post by: rsss396 on March 23, 2015, 10:01:49 AM

Quote from: bobhartman;51934

The automatic QUOTE above is not the subject of my reply.

What a great thing you have done to post all these timing curves.   No where else in the entire world, but here is this info available-and it is in such high quality.


I would like to know for sure that the 1996 CR500 Timing Curve you posted is in fact an OEM timing curve for the 1996 CR500.  Can you confirm that please?

This motor will go into an old TZ250G chassis left over from my racing days. All up weight will be less than 240 lbs, 75 whp & a 52 inch wheelbase, it should be a lot of fun.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.     Bob

Bob I tested the 1986 and 1993 CR500 OEM CDI's, I dont believe there would be allot of differance in a 96 CDI from the 93

sounds like a fun project, the cr500 motors are very reliable and make good usable power.

Title: Timing curves
Post by: bobhartman on March 23, 2015, 10:51:21 AM

Quote from: rsss396;52010

Bob I tested the 1986 and 1993 CR500 OEM CDI's, I dont believe there would be allot of differance in a 96 CDI from the 93

sounds like a fun project, the cr500 motors are very reliable and make good usable power.

Thanks for the fast response  & info.   Bob