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Re: Shock Setup for mx or xc First lets take a look at each one and how it effects you ride quality.

 

1. If you have too little up travel of the front wheels - your quad will hit the bumper (on the shock) to early and you will need to compensate by running a much stiffer setup due to the lack of front wheel travel.

If you have too much up travel of the front wheels - your frame can hit the ground.

If you have too little up travel of the rear wheels - your quad will hit the bumper early and kick the back end up very easily.

If you have too much up travel of the rear wheels - your frame will hit the ground.

 

2. If you have too much down travel of the front wheels - your quad will roll to much in the corners - the front end will come up to high in the front when accelerating giving you poor steering control of you quad since it is transferring too much weight to the rear tires.

If you have too little down travel of the front wheels - you will need to compensate for the lack of travel with with a very stiff front end to keep from bottoming - the front end will then dance over the rough terrain instead of tracking the ground nicely.

If you have too much down travel of the rear wheels - your quad will roll on down hill corners as the rear comes up to high and transfers to much weight to the front - the back end will also swap side to side when braking in rough terrain as the back comes up to high and will not track the ground nicely.

If you have too little down travel of the rear wheels - you will need to compensate with excessive spring preload and a stiff shock to keep from bottoming due to the lack of wheel travel.

 

3. The front spring curve can be built with various combinations of springs, spacers, and crossovers. A few things to look for in a good spring curve -  lift up on the front of the quad till the shocks fully extend - now push down on the front of the quad - it should be a nice smooth transition thru the down travel with no distinct changes as the springs crossover into the next spring - push down on the front of the quad several times and then let go - the upper spring should be supporting the weight of the quad without hitting the crossover point - now have someone the same weight as the rider stand on the pegs and do this again - the extra weight will let you push the front end down further into the travel so you can feel more of the spring curve - everything should still be smooth - push down several times and let go again - the top spring should now be 1/8 - 3/8 inches close to hitting the crossover point - again the top spring should be able to support the quad and the rider.

The combination of the center spring, if there is one and the main spring is the next thing to check - with the rider on the pegs - push down on the front bumper until you have most of you weight on the bumper (150#) - now look to see how far the body or seal head is from hitting the bumper - bounce down on it gently and then recheck - you should have a distance of 3/4 to 1 inch before it contacts the bumper when you have about 150# on the bumper and the rider standing on the pegs - you should also be able to gently bounce down and almost hit the bumper without hitting any harsh spots in the spring curve - if there is harsh spots in the spring curve.

If you spring curve is to progressive - it will be to soft at the top of the travel, to stiff at the bottom of the travel, and will give you a harsh ride. If the spring curve has to little progression - it will act like a single spring and bottom easily on any hard hits - it will also roll a lot in the corners.

 

 

FAQ#1: What is a crossover??

A: The crossover is a part that makes contact with another part and transfers the remaining increase in pressure to the main spring. That can be different looking parts on different shocks. The first photo is of the crossover that is used one one stock shock conversion. The second photo shows how the crossover fits on the shock. The third photo shows the shock and crossover with the spring installed. The fourth photo shows the shock compressed to the point that the crossover is 3/16 inch from hitting or crossing over. The last photo shows the shock compressed to the point where the crossover contacts the collar above it and all the remaining pressure is going into the main spring.

PICT0034.JPG (149421 bytes)PICT0035.JPG (142545 bytes)PICT0036.JPG (165652 bytes)PICT0039.JPG (170221 bytes)PICT0040.JPG (182693 bytes)

 

FAQ#2: What should my ride height be??

A: That is a loaded question that does not take into account how your shocks are built. If the compressed and extended lengths of your shock are correct for you quad, application, and components - then your race sag should be around 4.5 inches for XC, 3 inches for dunes, 3.5 inches for TT, and 5 inches for MX - depending on the track or terrain you are riding on. If you setup your quad by ride height alone - you can take a perfectly good set of shocks and jack up the quad so bad it will never handle right. Measuring ride height is essential as a reference especially when calling in for technical support.

 

FAQ#3: How do I measure my race sag??

A: Have someone lift up on the front and back of your quad till all the suspension is stretched out to its max. Then measure the distance that the bottom of you frame is from the ground, both front and back. That should be from 11.5 to 12.5 inches on an XC quad, 12 to 13 inches on a MX quad, and 7.5- 8 inches on a TT quad. Then have the rider stand on the pegs and measure the frame to ground measurement again. The difference of those 2 measurements is your race sag.

 

FAQ#4: What should my distance to crossover be??

A: First off the race sag needs to be set where you be be riding it before you worry about the crossover distance. Adjusting the race sag will effect the crossover distance. Be sure to measure your distance to crossover with the rider standing on the pegs. The crossover distance should then be 1/8 to 3/8 inch. The lower the number  - the better it will corner and the stiffer the shock will feel - a longer distance will give you a plusher ride.

 

FAQ#5: What do I do if my quad rolls to much in the corners??

A: First make sure you race sag is set correctly, then verify that the crossover distance is within range. You can then either install a longer crossover or run the next stiffer main spring.

 

FAQ#5: How much progression do I want in my front spring curve??

A: Your front spring curve must work in conjunction with the shock valving to provide the plushest ride possible without bottoming harshly. If the spring curve and valving combination is to stiff - you will not use all your travel and will have a harsh ride quality. You want the combination of valving and spring curve to allow you to use all your travel yet still provide good cornering and bottoming resistance. It is a balancing act and what works for you may be too soft or stiff for someone else.

April 11, 2018, 03:49:02 PM
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Re: List of Big Bore Pipes - 1-1/8" Stinger Diameter - TRX250R Inside stinger diameter can get complicated real fast and involves a lot of variables and I can usually answer this question on stinger sizing quicker using the dyno and monitoring the piston crown temperature rather than trying to model the system using partial differential equations.  Listed below are the variables that must be considered and some of the basic science on how these variables affect stinger sizing.

1. The horsepower of the individual cylinder not the displacement is the most important variable when sizing stinger diameter and length.
    a.  A 1 HP cylinder creates a given quantity of exhaust gas and wasted heat.  A 100 HP cylinder creates 100 times more exhaust gas and wasted heat than the 1 HP cylinder

2.  The time between power pulses must be long enough for the exhaust to exit the pipe on each engine revolution

3.  The flow rate of the stinger and muffler has to provide the proper amount of back pressure at the exhaust port to work with the diffuser and tail cone shape profiles.
     a.  Anytime length is added to pipe or tubing, the flow rate is reduced.
     b.  Anytime a bend is added to pipe or tubing the flow rate is reduced.  The total number of degrees of of bend in the stinger/muffler is cumulative.  One bend of 50 degrees will offer approximately the same amount of restriction as five bends of 10 degrees each in the same length of tubing.
     c.  Turndowns on the end of mufflers reduce the flow rate but help fool the sound meters that the officials use when conducting sound level testing.
     d.  Anytime the inside diameter is reduced due to using cheap tube benders or worn out tube bending mandrels, the flow is reduced.
     e.  Anytime the inside diameter is reduced due to a weld booger inside the pipe flow is reduced.
     f.  The transition between the tail cone and stinger entrance should be straight and not bend at the junction.
     g.   The muffler's perforated tube reduces the flow rate.  The hole pattern and hole diameters affect the flow rate and the sound attenuation of the muffler.

A combination of "a" through "g" can be used to obtain the desired flow rate (back pressure) of the stinger/muffler.  On some engines the length of the stinger/muffler will show a slight benefit due to the tuning of some of the secondary wave activity in stinger/muffler tract but the proper restriction is most important. 


Small displacement cylinders are usually more thermally sound and their pistons will usually allow more back pressure to be run at the exhaust port. Some of us engine builders can get a lot of power from the old two stroke engines that have been updated and are not using 25 year old pipe and cylinder port technology.

It has been my experience that the two stroke piston crown profiles (minimum thickness and thickness profiles) are poorly designed on most of the forged pistons being manufactured for our sport, especially the ones we have to use on the big bore cylinders.  I believe the piston manufacturers have gone overboard in trying to make the lightest piston possible at the expense of not being able to dissipate the heat that is proportional to the power that can be found in some of the newer cylinders. Most of the time thin piston crowns will not sag or burn through even after 500 runs on the dyno, when the dyno runs are in the 2 to 7 second range, but will sag or burn through when being run for WOT 10 to 15 seconds when tuned for max power up a long steep sand mountain or across a dry lake bed in a Baja race.

Back to the stinger topic:
The stinger inside diameters (exhaust flow rate) is adequate on many of the big bore pipes until the power level is pushed to a much higher level.  If this high level is reached it may be necessary to increase the inside diameter of the stinger/muffler combination or the length of the stinger/muffler combination may have to be substantially reduced or bends removed the the stinger/muffler combination to increase the flow rate so that the back pressure does not cause a piston crown failure.

A decision has to be made if the power level drops, the over-rev portion of the power curve is substantially reduced after the stinger inside diameter is increased or other measures were taken to improve the flow rated through the stinger.......  Am I willing to sacrifice power for reduced piston crown operating temperature?.....or...... use a stinger/muffler combination that makes the most power&over-rev and shorten the number of seconds that the engine is run at WOT with 30 seconds or so of rest between each WOT period?

March 04, 2020, 07:35:48 PM
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