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Workshop => The Mad Scientist => Topic started by: dem3500 on September 30, 2016, 12:41:21 PM

Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on September 30, 2016, 12:41:21 PM
i have a 363, i race XC and 90% i dont have any cooling problem at all.....but....a couple weeks ago i had a mud race. not fun lol. mi tires were doing more spinning than i was going forward. i ended up quitting the race after two laps because i kept overheating. in not going to blow my engine for a podium finish haha. so it got me thinking....(i do have an expensive radiator. CR iirc) why not ad more capacity to the cooling system? i cant think of any reason that it would be bad. just something that crossed my mind was maybe something like a truck power steering or external oil cooler somewhere along the frame rail towards the back. run the same size radiator hose as the existing hose. providing whatever extra cooling device i used had the same ID as not to restrict flow. maybe try to squeeze another 1/2 to full qt of fluid. just a thought and figured id through it out there for discussion.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on September 30, 2016, 12:54:34 PM
and i also just thought about cavitation. that could be a problem if a steam bubble got stuck but would that actually be a problem? im not sure, just random thinking.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: rk88r on September 30, 2016, 02:03:56 PM
You may have keep the top of the tank below the bottom of the rad. A fan like trail tech offers might work better. And a furnace filter in front of the frame.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on September 30, 2016, 03:46:34 PM
yea i run a furnace filter. the over heat problem was due to my engine and tires turning at 90 million mph and i was only going like 10 mph lol. im doing a fan this winter. most likely a ltz400 along with the sensors and a battery. i know that will solve my problem. even though its only 10% of the time. its getting lights, stop/tail, and at least one front led if not two.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 01, 2016, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: dem3500;69871
i have a 363, i race XC and 90% i dont have any cooling problem at all.....but....a couple weeks ago i had a mud race. not fun lol. mi tires were doing more spinning than i was going forward. i ended up quitting the race after two laps because i kept overheating. in not going to blow my engine for a podium finish haha. so it got me thinking....(i do have an expensive radiator. CR iirc) why not ad more capacity to the cooling system? i cant think of any reason that it would be bad. just something that crossed my mind was maybe something like a truck power steering or external oil cooler somewhere along the frame rail towards the back. run the same size radiator hose as the existing hose. providing whatever extra cooling device i used had the same ID as not to restrict flow. maybe try to squeeze another 1/2 to full qt of fluid. just a thought and figured id through it out there for discussion.

Why not use something like an oil catch can in between the radiator to water pump inlet?
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 01, 2016, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: dem3500;69872
and i also just thought about cavitation. that could be a problem if a steam bubble got stuck but would that actually be a problem? im not sure, just random thinking.

An air pocket could cause an overheating issue being it can't compress.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: jwraymond6 on October 01, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
I've thought about finding a small heater core and put it onthe return hose kinda acting like a pre cooler before it went through the rad
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: jcs003 on October 01, 2016, 03:59:37 PM
do you have a temperature gauge?

john
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 02, 2016, 03:33:18 PM
I have a temp gauge but it's an inline ESR one so I csnt monitor it very easy when I'm racing. Im probably going to get an electronic one I csn mount on my bars or hood
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 17, 2016, 07:47:59 AM
Ok so another race yesterday with it being muddy. Not even that bad but I overheated AGAIN! it was the last race of the year, I planned to rebuild it after the race anyway, so I said screw it I'm going to keep going. So I went till the engine started breaking up really bad and just limped it back with the hopes of not putting the rod through the block lol. It made it back and held together. With that said I'm going to move forward with a fan and a thermostat switch. Has anyone fit a fan on an arens frame? It's a really tight squeeze back there. I have a bud with a trx450 and as soon as I have some time I'm going to take it off and see if it will fit. I'm just hoping someone else has done it already and can save me the time lol
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: rablack21 on October 17, 2016, 10:25:08 AM
A 363 is difficult to cool in low wind airflow conditions (woods racing) regardless of what radiator you have in the current market place. My question would be how are you getting the mud in the radiator? Is it from guys in front of you slinging mud? If so, you might consider making some mud deflectors with duct tape, plastic board, etc. Whatever you could come up with to keep mud from getting stuck in the radiator. If the mud is coming from large water crossings, that is a different story. There isn't much you can do about that to maintain radiator efficiency.If that is the problem, you really only have a couple options. Either decrease size of engine or increase cooling efficiency. Only 3 ways to improve the cooling efficiency situation: 1. reduce heat rejection requirement (reduce engine size)  2. increase airflow (either drive faster in wide open areas - not practical, or increase airflow by an external method -an electric fan) 3. Increase cooling capacity - larger radiator (unfortunately without good airflow, this doesn't accomplish much. Plus, you can space restrictions that really limits the amount of extra cooling you can obtain).
With all that said, that really only leaves you with the option to add a fan. I haven't really heard of anyone doing this with GREAT success, but there have been quite a few try. So someone may have done this successfully now. I'll leave you with 2 bits of hopefully helpful info. 1. If running one off of a battery is an option, that might be more feasible.
2. You may try contacting Michael Sytsma (he is on 250r for life facebook group). He makes custom electrical harnesses for a living. He has also made several custom electrical harnesses for our machines. Maybe he has got some ideas for you.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 17, 2016, 01:58:34 PM
i am not having any problem with mud gatting into my radiator. its clean as can be. a few nickle size chunks is all. it is most definitely that im not moving fast enough to get good cooling. when its dry out i can haul ass and keep the air moving through my radiator. when its muddy my engine is working to spin the tires but not actually move fast enough to get the air through the radiator. at this point i will be running a small motorcycle battery. not sure where but ill figure that out on the fly. im not worried about it. doing the wiring/integration is also no biggie for me. that stuff is super easy. at the current moment the only thing i dont know is what fan will fit behind the radiator on my arens. once i get that figured out it should be smooth sailing for me. and just for the record id just assume not to race the 1 or 2 muddy races for the season rather than reduce my engine size! lol!
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 17, 2016, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: rablack21;70218
A 363 is difficult to cool in low wind airflow conditions (woods racing) regardless of what radiator you have in the current market place. My question would be how are you getting the mud in the radiator? Is it from guys in front of you slinging mud? If so, you might consider making some mud deflectors with duct tape, plastic board, etc. Whatever you could come up with to keep mud from getting stuck in the radiator. If the mud is coming from large water crossings, that is a different story. There isn't much you can do about that to maintain radiator efficiency.If that is the problem, you really only have a couple options. Either decrease size of engine or increase cooling efficiency. Only 3 ways to improve the cooling efficiency situation: 1. reduce heat rejection requirement (reduce engine size)  2. increase airflow (either drive faster in wide open areas - not practical, or increase airflow by an external method -an electric fan) 3. Increase cooling capacity - larger radiator (unfortunately without good airflow, this doesn't accomplish much. Plus, you can space restrictions that really limits the amount of extra cooling you can obtain).
With all that said, that really only leaves you with the option to add a fan. I haven't really heard of anyone doing this with GREAT success, but there have been quite a few try. So someone may have done this successfully now. I'll leave you with 2 bits of hopefully helpful info. 1. If running one off of a battery is an option, that might be more feasible.
2. You may try contacting Michael Sytsma (he is on 250r for life facebook group). He makes custom electrical harnesses for a living. He has also made several custom electrical harnesses for our machines. Maybe he has got some ideas for you.

Mike is on here [MENTION=486]hontrx265r[/MENTION] what about a 450 fan?
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 17, 2016, 05:04:59 PM
I have to test fit a 450 fan. I was hoping someone already knew what fan would fit
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 18, 2016, 08:10:10 AM
Quote from: dem3500;70226
I have to test fit a 450 fan. I was hoping someone already knew what fan would fit

I've got both bikes and a radiator out of an R, I have seen fans that were coolant temp driven before just can't remember where off hand.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 18, 2016, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Skeans1;70237
I've got both bikes and a radiator out of an R, I have seen fans that were coolant temp driven before just can't remember where off hand.

i know the trx450 fans have a temp switch. that is what i plan on running along with the 450 over temp light or an electronic display of some sort so i can monitor it better.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: rablack21 on October 18, 2016, 08:23:05 AM
Quote from: Skeans1;70225
Mike is on here [MENTION=486]hontrx265r[/MENTION] what about a 450 fan?
Oh cool! I didn't realize he was on here already.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 18, 2016, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: dem3500;70238
i know the trx450 fans have a temp switch. that is what i plan on running along with the 450 over temp light or an electronic display of some sort so i can monitor it better.

What I'm taking about is a heat energy driven fan the warm or hot coolant actually drove the fan.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 18, 2016, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: Skeans1;70241
What I'm taking about is a heat energy driven fan the warm or hot coolant actually drove the fan.

interesting! ive never heard of that. im going to look into it
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 18, 2016, 08:48:09 AM
Quote from: dem3500;70238
i know the trx450 fans have a temp switch. that is what i plan on running along with the 450 over temp light or an electronic display of some sort so i can monitor it better.

What all do you want to know for if a 450 fan will fit the R radiator? Just measurements? Voltage?
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 18, 2016, 11:51:49 AM
Quote from: Skeans1;70243
What all do you want to know for if a 450 fan will fit the R radiator? Just measurements? Voltage?

i want to know fittment. i know the arens has different dimensions on the two bars that are behind the radiator and go up to the upper steering mount part of the frame. ive read that people with stock frames are using a ltz400 fan but i had one of those in my hands and there was no way it would fit.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 18, 2016, 12:27:33 PM
Quote from: dem3500;70245
i want to know fittment. i know the arens has different dimensions on the two bars that are behind the radiator and go up to the upper steering mount part of the frame. ive read that people with stock frames are using a ltz400 fan but i had one of those in my hands and there was no way it would fit.

I can get you the measurements if that helps any
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 18, 2016, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: Skeans1;70246
I can get you the measurements if that helps any

Sure that would be great. Thanks!
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 19, 2016, 12:33:52 AM
Quote from: dem3500;70247
Sure that would be great. Thanks!

Measurements are 10 X 7.5" so for a stock style 86 radiator it'd be possible to do. As far as voltage I'll have to test it's possible they use ac.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: hickwheeler on October 19, 2016, 01:01:38 AM
He probably needs to know thickness Jared
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 19, 2016, 07:04:42 AM
Quote from: hickwheeler;70255
He probably needs to know thickness Jared

Forgot that measurement but on a stock frame there wouldn't be any issues or even putting a 450 radiator in place of the R radiator which is roughly 12x12.
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: dem3500 on October 19, 2016, 07:16:12 AM
ok thanks for the info. i dont have a stock frame............ill get it figured out. thanks for the help
Title: added coolant capacity
Post by: Skeans1 on October 19, 2016, 08:53:26 PM
Quote from: dem3500;70260
ok thanks for the info. i dont have a stock frame............ill get it figured out. thanks for the help
If you need a thickness measurement I can do that as well after that you're down to trying it out yourself.