TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: F-Red on September 21, 2013, 09:03:32 PM
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Does this area of the flywheel, look ok? Any reason this could, effect the timing?
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/FlywheelChippedShutter.png) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/FlywheelChippedShutter.png.html)
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yeah that will be ok the trailing edge actually triggers the cdi
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Does this area of the flywheel, look ok? Any reason this could, effect the timing?
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/FlywheelChippedShutter.png) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/FlywheelChippedShutter.png.html)
I highly doubt it, being it isn't even off by a 1/16th of a degree ...
there is no real current going through the pick up its more of a proximity switch just picking up the difference in the potential surface, I've seen prox switches run with inches of sludge and debris built up on them
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Thanks Guys. Just trying to eliminate all, possibilities.
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Thanks Guys. Just trying to eliminate all, possibilities.
what's your symptoms?
sorry if its posted someplace else, but just curious what the problem is
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Just here. Long story short, 4th piston on ESR 330 cylinder. Making sure timing is not advanced too much. CR ignition, fully retarded, looks like it's advanced too much. I have a timing tape for the flywheel, I'll install tomorrow.
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(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/TimingMarksOffIdle.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/TimingMarksOffIdle.jpg.html)
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Just here. Long story short, 4th piston on ESR 330 cylinder. Making sure timing is not advanced too much. CR ignition, fully retarded, looks like it's advanced too much. I have a timing tape for the flywheel, I'll install tomorrow.
which cdi are you using, are you sure you don't have a 125cc cdi in it?
and at what rpms do you have your idle at
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It's the CR250 CDI. I've authenticated it's the 2001 CR250, complete system.
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(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps6f773acf.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps6f773acf.jpg.html)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps543ac352.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps543ac352.jpg.html)
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If you are running a 330 with an exhaust pipe and silencer with 1" id tail pipe and muffler core you will likely have piston problems if you are making horsepower. If you are running a 38-41mm Kehein carburetor with a DGJ needle you are likely to have problems.
Run a 1 1/8 id tail pipe and muffler core, choose a richer needle such as DEJ, DEK or DDJ (depends on carb and combination) and I think your piston problems will go away.
I hope this helps.
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I'm running a older TRX5. Stinger O.D. 1.125, I assume I.D. 1 in. Never heard these pipes weren't a good match for a 330. 38mm Airstyrker, DGH needle.
Fuel jetting feels right.
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Timing Tape.
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps3db018a1.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps3db018a1.jpg.html)
I always felt the timing is advanced too much. Idling, the tape is numbered incorrectly. On the advanced side numbers, 15 is 20 and 20 is 30.
Looking at this picture, it's close to 20 degrees advanced. Revving the engine, retards to around, 15. These are not ideal numbers. What is wrong?
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps51d3acda.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps51d3acda.jpg.html)
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to be accurate you really should have a tach,
but if your saying you have 15 degrees advanced around 6750 rpm that's right on the mark for a 2001 timing curve,
are you getting any knocking? what makes you say you always thought timing was to advanced?
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well in the one picture you had, the stator plate is turned counter-clockwise all the way (retarded), you will normally get about 4 degrees of advance or retard with the factory slot so if you take away 4 degrees from 20 that puts you right at 16 degrees.
Your picture shows 15, but the angle you took the picture can show at least 1 degree difference, especially without a pointer right next to the flywheel.
try advancing the stator now and check you timing.
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/DLRACINGCR250CR125TIMINGGRAPH_zpsd173c2d4.jpg)
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So even with the stator plate locked down at full retard, the timing is still around 16* advanced ?.
Now is it 16* advance at idle ?, if so, what in the world is it going up to as the rpms go up.
Kinda looks like, we need to machine slots in the adapter plate so that can be adjusted as well.
Neil
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Your picture shows 15, but the angle you took the picture can show at least 1 degree difference, especially without a pointer right next to the flywheel.
try advancing the stator now and check you timing.
When this timing tape was drawn, the incremental numbers are by 5*. The number 15* is really 20*. The engine is idling @ almost 20* advanced.
So even with the stator plate locked down at full retard, the timing is still around 16* advanced ?.
Now is it 16* advance at idle ?, if so, what in the world is it going up to as the rpms go up.
Kinda looks like, we need to machine slots in the adapter plate so that can be adjusted as well.
Neil
You are correct Neil. But when I rev the engine up, it will retard by 5* Assuming the CDI is retarding, with increased RPM's.
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So as you rev its dropping back to 16* advance.
I really think, as I've said before, I think those CR250R ignition adapter plates, are machined with the intent of being used on an alky engine, because of only being a hole drilled in for the mounting bolts with advance already being in their location.
The adapter plates that CT Racing offers, have slots for the mounting bolts for even more adjustment.
Neil
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Just for reference my bone stock 1988 250r idles at 3000 rpm according to my timing light with rpm display
you really need some sort of rpm to cross reference, and are you positive the tape markings are correct? do you have a degree wheel that you can double check the timing tape?
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So as you rev its dropping back to 16* advance.
I really think, as I've said before, I think those CR250R ignition adapter plates, are machined with the intent of being used on an alky engine, because of only being a hole drilled in for the mounting bolts with advance already being in their location.
The adapter plates that CT Racing offers, have slots for the mounting bolts for even more adjustment.
Neil
Yes, the timing drops back to 15-16* advanced, when reved moderately. I'm tending to believe the same thing, about the ESR adapter plate. I read on some micro sprint forum, these guys are using the ESR plate, no adjustment and running alcohol.
Is the CT Racing plate, the RPM brand? CT's site does not show that adapter plate for purchase.
Just for reference my bone stock 1988 250r idles at 3000 rpm according to my timing light with rpm display
you really need some sort of rpm to cross reference, and are you positive the tape markings are correct? do you have a degree wheel that you can double check the timing tape?
Dave, that sounds high for idle. My timing light doesn't show rpm's. I can be pretty sure, mine is not idling that high. The tape is correct. Triple checked, degrees are .0258" increments. Drawn in SolidWorks.
Besides the magic number of degrees advanced, it is clearly advanced more than the ideal 0-5* Why? Is it a possible the CDI module, could be failing?
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Not sure, you could send it to me and I can spin it on my tester and see how it compares to mine that I have tested.
just pay for shipping both ways
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Humm, you got me on the CT adapter plate David, cause I always thought they were a CT product.
I'll have to check my old old CT catolog & see what it list them as.
Something I did learn about the ignitions, when you have an intermited ground, it causes the ignition to go crazy & start over, just like when you first started the engine up & at idle, so the timing will be advance real high cause it thinks the engines idling, until the pick up coil tells the CDI box different, so clean all those contact points, bolts & screws.
Neil
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Not sure, you could send it to me and I can spin it on my tester and see how it compares to mine that I have tested.
just pay for shipping both ways
Thanks for the offer. I hope I can solve the issue, a little closer to home.
Humm, you got me on the CT adapter plate David, cause I always thought they were a CT product.
I'll have to check my old old CT catolog & see what it list them as.
Something I did learn about the ignitions, when you have an intermited ground, it causes the ignition to go crazy & start over, just like when you first started the engine up & at idle, so the timing will be advance real high cause it thinks the engines idling, until the pick up coil tells the CDI box different, so clean all those contact points, bolts & screws.
Neil
I will check those connections.
Here's a picture of the pickup coil, on the timing tab @ TDC.
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps83027bd3.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps83027bd3.jpg.html)
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Humm, you got me on the CT adapter plate David, cause I always thought they were a CT product.
I'll have to check my old old CT catolog & see what it list them as.
Something I did learn about the ignitions, when you have an intermited ground, it causes the ignition to go crazy & start over, just like when you first started the engine up & at idle, so the timing will be advance real high cause it thinks the engines idling, until the pick up coil tells the CDI box different, so clean all those contact points, bolts & screws.
Neil
I don't have the ct adapter, I have heard of them but have never seen one.
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Thanks for the offer. I hope I can solve the issue, a little closer to home.
I will check those connections.
Here's a picture of the pickup coil, on the timing tab @ TDC.
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps83027bd3.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/RideRed187/media/250R%20Pics%20Parts/null_zps83027bd3.jpg.html)
That pickup looks pretty close to the flywheel tab, usually .015" is about right
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I'll measure that gap tonight. Thanks guys for your help. There is not anybody in my area, that has a clue about the 250R. I'm on an island. :sour:
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well where you are at in timing is fine, so what are you exactly going after?
I know you had some issues with your esr cylinder and a few of us had recommended some water flow improvements did you attempt any of those changes?
Also what kind of timing light are you using?
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All I ever hear is, 4-7* advance, 10* max. Is this at full RPM? I'm idling @ 20* Your chart that you posted, indicates I'm fine. I'm a little gun shy, if you know what I mean.
Yes, I hogged out the water passages and running Engine Ice. I'll post some pictures on the ESR cylinder thread, I started. My timing light is a battery powered, nothing fancy brand.