TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Carburetor, Intake, and Exhaust => Topic started by: rablack21 on October 01, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
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I emailed Corey (VP of development) at Power APT and asked them for an update on the cast Smart Carbs. Here is his response:
Ryan,
Yes we've had trouble with the blanket emails winding up in peoples spam box and so on. Sorry you have not been getting updates. We plan to start releasing the first batch on the 8th of October, so we are just days away now.
Corey
We are only days away from the cast carbs being available! (Hopefully!) This is awesome.
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great news! hope these carbs live up to the claims, because they sound like a nice carb.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbBkt2_pZNM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbBkt2_pZNM)
Just found this. Apparently, Dirt Rider magazine says they saw a 3 hp difference over a regular carb during their dyno testing. They even picked up another 1.5 hp just by fine tuning the smart carb a little bit.
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I just placed my order for one! FYI to all, Corey said they have about 100 extra ones after the their preorders are filled. I wouldn't wait til the last minute to put an order in for one, these things are gonna go quick!
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http://www.powerapt.com/ (http://www.powerapt.com/)
If interested in knowing more.
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I might have to invest in one of these
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Doug, oldschoolr has one of these 40mm billet version. Heres the pic
(http://i44.tinypic.com/1zdugt0.jpg)
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what's the difference?why would jetting be easyer?
The billet version was their first models. They are more expensive because they were completely machined out of billet. The new ones are die cast and are considerably cheaper because of that.
They are easier because there are no jets to change. The amount of fuel that is fed into the engine is dependent on the amount of air coming into the engine. But the fuel going into the engine is atomized, so it burns more completely and uses less of it. The only adjustments are for the idle and a fine tuning screw on top of the carb. Nothing to change out on the inside of the carb. The carb also automatically adjusts to temperature and altitude change.
check out the website. It will help.
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The billet version was their first models. They are more expensive because they were completely machined out of billet. The new ones are die cast and are considerably cheaper because of that.
They are easier because there are no jets to change. The amount of fuel that is fed into the engine is dependent on the amount of air coming into the engine. But the fuel going into the engine is atomized, so it burns more completely and uses less of it. The only adjustments are for the idle and a fine tuning screw on top of the carb. Nothing to change out on the inside of the carb. The carb also automatically adjusts to temperature and altitude change.
check out the website. It will help.
they are essentially using lectron technology but APT has worked out all the issues that lectron refuses to address. kudos to APT for fixing the flaws that other manufacturers (lectron) passes the blame on to the customer. cant wait to get a smart carb in the spring.
john
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These carb's are smart. Could be the next best thing, to sliced bread! :adoration:
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they are essentially using lectron technology but APT has worked out all the issues that lectron refuses to address. kudos to APT for fixing the flaws that other manufacturers (lectron) passes the blame on to the customer. cant wait to get a smart carb in the spring.
john
I agree, lectron should at least put a pilot jet/air screw on there carb, they should also spend a little money and cast some bigger bodies for the racers wanting them.
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so these are like the old predator carb's for car's!!!i had one on my race car.never was able to get it to run right!!it looked cool though!!
The only place I ever saw a predator carb was on the original bigfoot monster truck. He even had two of them.
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The only place I ever saw a predator carb was on the original bigfoot monster truck. He even had two of them.
Bigfoot is what I think about when i hear predator carbs too.
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i think it's funny people think this is new technology....this is some oldschool crap!!maybe new for quad's,but not new.
This is not really new technology. It's just technology that has been tweaked to perform better and now offered for quads. Yes, Lectron has offered the single circuit carb for a while, yet you notice not that many people used them because they didn't work all that well. I believe these carbs are gonna change the game for 2 strokes.
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Got email today saying the want be receiving the parts to assemble them till October 22 .
To Our Pre-Order Customers,
This is an update for our SmartCarb pre-order customers on the
progress of cast 38mm SmartCarb durability testing and production
timeline.
American Performance Technologies is pleased to announce that the
in-house comprehensive durability testing phase is complete. External
durability testing by riders in the field will remain ongoing as we
continually look for ways to improve and refine our technology.
Minor wear and durability related issues have been addressed and
appropriate changes have been made to final casting and machining of
38mm cast SmartCarbs. Float bowl baffling has been markedly improved
to reduce chances of fuel cavitation/bogging and new floats will
minimize flooding issues and reduce part count and complexity. By
taking the time necessary to complete comprehensive durability
testing, we feel that we have satisfied our obligations to ensure
that our product meets and exceeds the high quality expectations of
our customers.
Today our supplier has announced that we will not be receiving
production castings on October 8 as promised. Our supplier has
assured us that SmartCarb castings will begin arriving, fully
machined and ready for assembly, starting October 22. APT will then
begin shipping them out to pre-order customers as we build them on a
first-ordered, first-received basis.
As always, American Performance Technologies appreciates your
patience and support.
After APT receives this first run of 38mm cast carbs, we will quickly
move into casting other sizes. Unfortunately, this means that there
will be a considerable amount of time before we produce another run
of SmartCarbs in the 38mm size. After current pre-order quantities
are satisfied, we estimate that there will only be 100 cast 38s in
this first run that will go into on-the-shelf inventory. APT expects
that shelf stock of 38mm carbs to be depleted quickly due to high
demand. If you want to get your hands on one of these remaining 38mm
cast SmartCarbs, we encourage any who are interested to go to our
website, http://www.powerapt.com, and pre-order.
We will keep you up-to-date and a notification will be sent to your
email once your SmartCarb has been shipped. If you have any
questions or concerns, please give us a call at 1-877-372-3465.
______________________________________________________________________
Click to view this email in a browser
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1379465/d40d213dc7/571007245/9ce4f18ff0/
If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this
message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the
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_____________________________________________________________________
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These look very cool. Bring on the 40 cast.
We need our normal performance guys to play with these to see if they can maybe make them bigger for us.
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Got email today saying the want be receiving the parts to assemble them till October 22 .
To Our Pre-Order Customers,
This is an update for our SmartCarb pre-order customers on the
progress of cast 38mm SmartCarb durability testing and production
timeline.
American Performance Technologies is pleased to announce that the
in-house comprehensive durability testing phase is complete. External
durability testing by riders in the field will remain ongoing as we
continually look for ways to improve and refine our technology.
Minor wear and durability related issues have been addressed and
appropriate changes have been made to final casting and machining of
38mm cast SmartCarbs. Float bowl baffling has been markedly improved
to reduce chances of fuel cavitation/bogging and new floats will
minimize flooding issues and reduce part count and complexity. By
taking the time necessary to complete comprehensive durability
testing, we feel that we have satisfied our obligations to ensure
that our product meets and exceeds the high quality expectations of
our customers.
Today our supplier has announced that we will not be receiving
production castings on October 8 as promised. Our supplier has
assured us that SmartCarb castings will begin arriving, fully
machined and ready for assembly, starting October 22. APT will then
begin shipping them out to pre-order customers as we build them on a
first-ordered, first-received basis.
As always, American Performance Technologies appreciates your
patience and support.
After APT receives this first run of 38mm cast carbs, we will quickly
move into casting other sizes. Unfortunately, this means that there
will be a considerable amount of time before we produce another run
of SmartCarbs in the 38mm size. After current pre-order quantities
are satisfied, we estimate that there will only be 100 cast 38s in
this first run that will go into on-the-shelf inventory. APT expects
that shelf stock of 38mm carbs to be depleted quickly due to high
demand. If you want to get your hands on one of these remaining 38mm
cast SmartCarbs, we encourage any who are interested to go to our
website, http://www.powerapt.com, and pre-order.
We will keep you up-to-date and a notification will be sent to your
email once your SmartCarb has been shipped. If you have any
questions or concerns, please give us a call at 1-877-372-3465.
______________________________________________________________________
Click to view this email in a browser
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1379465/d40d213dc7/571007245/9ce4f18ff0/
If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this
message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the
following link:
http://cts.vresp.com/u?d40d213dc7/9ce4f18ff0/mlpftw
_____________________________________________________________________
Yeah, I got this as well, but was expecting it since Corey basically told me this was going to happen when I placed my order last week. He told me we would have them by the end of October. I am excited to get my hands on one. Once they start shipping, the extras are gonna go fast.
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Yeah, I got this as well, but was expecting it since Corey basically told me this was going to happen when I placed my order last week. He told me we would have them by the end of October. I am excited to get my hands on one. Once they start shipping, the extras are gonna go fast.
Do you know if the billet ones are shipping any quicker than 2 weeks after a order is placed.
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Do you know if the billet ones are shipping any quicker than 2 weeks after a order is placed.
I'm not 100% sure. It would be best to ask Corey. I do believe he mentioned that they had been shipping like every 2 weeks anyway on the billet ones. They have been getting them out pretty quick.
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all hell broke loose at ktmtalk. looks like middle of november at the earliest now. hahahahahahaha . apt is a bunch of clowns imo
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all hell broke loose at ktmtalk. looks like middle of november at the earliest now. hahahahahahaha . apt is a bunch of clowns imo
Its pretty freakin sad that they are taking so long to produce something that a company already made and just neded to make improvements to. Hell, we designed, built and then flew plans into battle back in WWII and these guys can't get a freakin carb into production!!
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all hell broke loose at ktmtalk. looks like middle of november at the earliest now. hahahahahahaha . apt is a bunch of clowns imo
According to what was posted over there, this is inaccurate. The middle of November is when people would be able to receive them AFTER all the pre-orders have been fulfilled. This would be people ordering one right off the shelf, not people who have already ordered them, so this is very reasonable.
Its pretty freakin sad that they are taking so long to produce something that a company already made and just needed to make improvements to. Hell, we designed, built and then flew plans into battle back in WWII and these guys can't get a freakin carb into production!!
While I agree that it has taken quite a while to get everything right and release these carbs, I would rather extra time be taken up front to make sure everything is good to go, then to get one and have a multitude of issues with them. A company only has one chance to make a good first impression. Pissing people off with a long delivery and them being really happy with the product when they get it is far better than people getting the product quickly and being pissed off because it's not working correctly or all the bugs are not worked out of them.
Besides, they never promised a concrete delivery date from the start and have always offered anyone's money back who changed their mind. And they were upfront from the start that they were just moving into the testing phase when they began the pre-order program. It was understood by those participating that this would take some time. You've got to get it right before you release the product or customers will hate the product and the company will go under. Yes, it is frustrating, but I also believe it will be worth the wait. I'll review it soon when I get mine in.
By the way, these carbs have already shown what they can do. No, the cast version is not proven yet, but the billet ones are everything they claim. I have ridden one personally. Just ask Oldschoolr. He loves his.
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I hate to see a company promote and push the prepay preorder angle. It is like they need your money first to finish the product or put an item together for you. Deposit to get in line ok, but the promotion and push by the company of the send me money now can be a little shaky.
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I hate to see a company promote and push the prepay preorder angle. It is like they need your money first to finish the product or put an item together for you. Deposit to get in line ok, but the promotion and push by the company of the send me money now can be a little shaky.
^^ Agreed ^^ But they are an up start company, still looking for investors. I hope it works out. Remember, there is a saying. "Good things come, to those who wait." I have no patience to wait!! :upset:
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^^ Agreed ^^ But they are an up start company, still looking for investors. I hope it works out. Remember, there is a saying. "Good things come, to those who wait." I have no patience to wait!! :upset:
I'm with you and don't think there will be any problems. To push the prepaid send in your money angle so hard even on the you tube videos is just not a normal everyday business practice. I hope it works out as well. Cool product.
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I'm with you and don't think there will be any problems. To push the prepaid send in your money angle so hard even on the you tube videos is just not a normal everyday business practice. I hope it works out as well. Cool product.
It's not a money issue. It's not that they need the money up front to make the product. It's a way to measure initial demand in order to estimate first batch size. This is a normal practice in other industries. Take a look at movies and video games. Online companies like Amazon, Game Stop, and etc. take pre-order money all the time. I think the pre-order is mainly due the size offering. They will be offering a 36mm and a 40mm version as well and don't want to over-estimate or under-estimate the demand of the 38mm.
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Ryan when you talked to Corey did he say they were gonna offer a cast 40mm ? Back in April when I talked to him the 38 was the biggest cast they were going to have.
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Ryan when you talked to Corey did he say they were gonna offer a cast 40mm ? Back in April when I talked to him the 38 was the biggest cast they were going to have.
Yes, If I remember correctly, he said they would be casting the 40mm next I believe.
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from ktmtalk-The new design will allow the ability to replace the slide/fork module within a common body family, thus making it either a 36,38 or 40mm.
aparently you just swap slides and whatever a fork module is on a 36 and then you got a 40 ?
not sure how many release dates have been advertised but never panned out. 4 or 5 maybe ? most recent was oct 8 which obviously aint gonna happen. pushed back to oct22 i think now. heard mention of nov 11 but not sure what that pertains to. at this point it wouldnt suprise me if apt is just throwing out dates to keep the prepay folks off their back
appears apt nearly burned their bridge with ktmtalk. a year of free advertising without being a site sponsor. that didnt sit well with the moderators
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I hate to see a company promote and push the prepay preorder angle. It is like they need your money first to finish the product or put an item together for you. Deposit to get in line ok, but the promotion and push by the company of the send me money now can be a little shaky.
I would personally never prepay and get on a who-knows-when wait list. This is Business 101 not to mention common sense that tells you this company is not well capitalized and they are using prepay $$ to fund R&D and the 1st gen production orders. It's only a few hundred bucks but puts all the risk on the buyers.
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ya the prepay deal seems shady to me also. alot of people jumped on it though. probly with credit card so they wouldnt be money out of pocket if apt went tits up tomorow.
from the begining there was set release dates but all of them so far have not panned out. been alot of reasons/excuses what the hold up is. i cant even remeber all the excuses they had. 205 pages worth
i believe they have offered a full refund to any prepay customers but still you would think atleast some of the customers money is funding the project because they know not everybody is gonna pull their money out.
hard to say if they had good intentions with the prepay or if it was a well designed sales trick. i have my own theory. certainly they would of known prepay would rope in a few more customers that wanted to be first on the block with the supposedly latest and greatest carb setup.
for a while ill bet lectrons phone was ringing off the hook as some poeple didnt wanna wait for the smartcarb so they wanted the next closest thing. kind of funny because before all the smartcarb excitment started about a year ago youd be hard pressed to find a hand full of bikes on ktmtalk with lectrons, and theres something like 10k members.
dont forget this smartcarb stuff is spread to alot of frikin websites. if it deals with atv or motorcycles you can bet theres several threads. the prepay deal must of generated huge amounts of money . the amount of members here is just a drop in a 55gal bucket compared to some the other sites where apt is trying to pull in customers
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Has anyone got their cast APT smart carb yet? If so what do you think... I'm on the fence and I'm waiting to get feedback before I send the cash.
Thanks
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They talked to me off and on for about two years to become one of their service centers for the vehicles that they would be selling at Sears, Kmart and other willing retailers. They ask me a lot of questions and I ask them a lot of questions. Initially I sounded like a business venture worth considering. They claimed to have some farmers and ranchers with deep pockets. The different guys I talked to on the phone were very evasive and could not or would not answer many of my direct questions about their organization. A number of the questions that I ask during our phone conversations were about how they were going to organize their operations were not answered. It seemed like they did not have policies, procedures or people that could handle some of the basic business situations that occur in the normal course of business. I saw too many red flags, became leery of there operation and decided not to get involved. I hope the investors do not loose their money.
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pretty sure the only investors are the prepay customers HAHAHAHAH. which still dont have a carb yet lol
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I think some of you guys may be looking at this the wrong way. The company is not trying to use the preorder folks to "prove" their technology. The carb design is already proven through the billet design. They have competed in the most grueling races, customers have them on their quads and bikes. All that is going on now is that they are making a more affordable design by casting.
On another note, I don't get why so many people are so up in arms or against the "preordering" program of this carb. A multitude of companies including Amazon and almost every major retail market that sells movies, video games, gaming consoles, cell phone, tablets, books, and etc. uses this format. Millions of people pre-order the newest Grand Theft Auto or the newest Call of Duty game and no one blinks an eye to it. But someone sets up a pre-order for an atv part and that makes the company unreliable? If I'm not mistaken, you have to "pre-order" any aftermarket chassis and pay for it far before you get it or see it in person. So I don't see the big deal in pre-ordering a carb. It allows a company to gauge it's first initial demand and act accordingly. It also allows customers to get theirs before the masses do, again just like video games.
That's the way most industries are done these days. It keeps them from having too much cash flow held up in the form of inventory. And as anyone who has been in the manufacturing industry knows, small batch of billet parts are the most costly, casting is cheaper, and die casting quite a bit cheaper but requires alot of volume. They don't quite have the volume demand for die casting yet, so they went with the next best option.
While I am a little disappointed that they have had to push their delivery date back, I haven't seen or heard a decision made that would make me doubt the decision I made to preorder a carb, or I would get my money refunded. I know how it is when venders do not get you parts on time or deliver on promises made. While I write this comment, I am also writing an email to a company vender asking them why they haven't sent me a report they promised to get to me yesterday. I only say that to say this, everything that happens is not always in 1 company's control, therefore, delays happen.
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I think some of you guys may be looking at this the wrong way. The company is not trying to use the preorder folks to "prove" their technology. The carb design is already proven through the billet design. They have competed in the most grueling races, customers have them on their quads and bikes. All that is going on now is that they are making a more affordable design by casting.
On another note, I don't get why so many people are so up in arms or against the "preordering" program of this carb. A multitude of companies including Amazon and almost every major retail market that sells movies, video games, gaming consoles, cell phone, tablets, books, and etc. uses this format. Millions of people pre-order the newest Grand Theft Auto or the newest Call of Duty game and no one blinks an eye to it. But someone sets up a pre-order for an atv part and that makes the company unreliable? If I'm not mistaken, you have to "pre-order" any aftermarket chassis and pay for it far before you get it or see it in person. So I don't see the big deal in pre-ordering a carb. It allows a company to gauge it's first initial demand and act accordingly. It also allows customers to get theirs before the masses do, again just like video games.
That's the way most industries are done these days. It keeps them from having too much cash flow held up in the form of inventory. And as anyone who has been in the manufacturing industry knows, small batch of billet parts are the most costly, casting is cheaper, and die casting quite a bit cheaper but requires alot of volume. They don't quite have the volume demand for die casting yet, so they went with the next best option.
While I am a little disappointed that they have had to push their delivery date back, I haven't seen or heard a decision made that would make me doubt the decision I made to preorder a carb, or I would get my money refunded. I know how it is when venders do not get you parts on time or deliver on promises made. While I write this comment, I am also writing an email to a company vender asking them why they haven't sent me a report they promised to get to me yesterday. I only say that to say this, everything that happens is not always in 1 company's control, therefore, delays happen.
+1 ^^^ I agree, but I'm going to hold off until i see "Dirt Smile" pictures of you guys that have pre-ordered.
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+1 ^^^ I agree, but I'm going to hold off until i see "Dirt Smile" pictures of you guys that have pre-ordered.
lol. fair enough. I will certainly give a full review of it when I get mine in including pictures and video, even if it is snowing here.
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if the billet version was so great then why not just make a identical casting and call it a day ? seems simple enough
i think the real story is they were having all kinds of tuning and design issues which can be seen on the 200+ pages of ktmtalk
something else that not many people are aware of but apt took in all those prepay customers (likely several thousand) and they werent even a site sponsor. finally the mods said pay up or get the F out. few days back i seen there was a apt banner but today i dont see it. maybe they pulled the plug and moved on to other website to peddle more prepay garbage
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if the billet version was so great then why not just make a identical casting and call it a day ? seems simple enough
i think the real story is they were having all kinds of tuning and design issues which can be seen on the 200+ pages of ktmtalk
A cast part can't be identical to a billet part. The casting process doesn't work that way, but they are very similar in design. I am aware of the stories that went on with ktm talk. Yes, I have read all 200+ pages. This is what got me interested in the carb to begin with. Yes, there have been found to be some issues along the way, some due to installer, some due to manufacturer. But the company has always offered a full refund to anyone who was unhappy with their product. That doesn't sound like a shady company to me.
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gimme a break dude. they can cast it close enough and machine to fine tolerances like they do with millions of other cast components. the fact is the billet wasnt worth a shit or they would of made the cast version just like it and had it in the hands of customers already.
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Im not being a smartass, I just havent done any of the research. But what I never understood from the beginning was, why not just offer the billet only, but at a cheaper cost. Throw a piece of alumn in the cnc, hit a few buttons and sit and watch vs new development, tooling, extra labor costs, foundry, etc. Just for a few thousand carbs. It just doesnt seem cost effective, maybe after its (casting cost investment) paid for itself it would be cost effective but thays alot of carbs to sell to get to that point
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gimme a break dude. they can cast it close enough and machine to fine tolerances like they do with millions of other cast components. the fact is the billet wasnt worth a shit or they would of made the cast version just like it and had it in the hands of customers already.
My apologies on the cast versus billet. We won't get into that.
You say that the billet ones aren't worth a crap, have you ever tried one? I have. There's atleast one of our members that has one and it works fantastic.
Not trying to argue with you , but you shouldn't down it if you haven't atleast tried it
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Im not being a smartass, I just havent done any of the research. But what I never understood from the beginning was, why not just offer the billet only, but at a cheaper cost. Throw a piece of alumn in the cnc, hit a few buttons and sit and watch vs new development, tooling, extra labor costs, foundry, etc. Just for a few thousand carbs. It just doesnt seem cost effective, maybe after its (casting cost investment) paid for itself it would be cost effective but thays alot of carbs to sell to get to that point
Eric, you know as well as I do that it is very expensive to make billet parts, especially ones that have such small edges and crevices. Making billet parts cheaper is not very easy no matter how many you run. Even though they are offering these carbs as aftermarket, their plan has always also been to get OE manufacturers to put them on their stock bikes. OEM's will not add that kind of cost into their new stock bikes. Besides, Keihin and Mikuni are die cast already(I believe). It's hard to compete with those prices unless you are doing the same. Plus, the smart carb design is constantly evolving like most new products. Right now, they are looking into making a more universal design for their die cast carbs. The idea is making one uni-body carb that can be final machined for 36mm,38mm,40mm, or custom sizes. And they will each take a difference slide. This is just a little FYI for those of you that didn't know this. The idea seems pretty cool.
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Thank you, the uni body makes sense to build if they can get it right, cost wise. I honestly had no idea what they are doing, Im an Air Strker guy, or Fcr now..LOL
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looks like everyone got bored with the smartcarb thread over there since they havent posted in over a month. what the lastest release date. spring next year ?
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Wow I didn't know there was so much going on with these carbs and I thought the billet ones were lretty nice from what I have read from owners of them already. But I am a airstryker guy and when these are out and I get to ride a quad with one I mite have to have one but until then I will keep reading and watching the posts about them for now.
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Its just a carburetor how much better can it be? I am not having any problems with the way the carburetors available now work! Fuel injection is much more sophisticated, but even that is no big deal. I am not against a new carb I just need a real good reason to spend any resources on trying a new carburetor.
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Best I can tell from what I've read and seen of them they appear to be a Lectron copy that someone is trying to improve upon. That is fine, Lectron's patent ran out some years ago and there was room to improve . It also appears that all the preorder customers are fitting the bill for the R&D and mold changes to the cast version. I don't believe they are out to screw anybody and hopefully they get the cast versions worked out. I would be interested in seeing how they perform in the hands of a few builders on here.
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Fresh Update!
The wait is almost over! Just got word that all preorders will be fulfilled by the 3rd week of December. Call it a Christmas Carb but I will take it!
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Fresh Update!
The wait is almost over! Just got word that all preorders will be fulfilled by the 3rd week of December. Call it a Christmas Carb but I will take it!
I want a full report by February!! Or you could make the 4 hr. drive to Durhamtown Plantation in the next 2 months, and if you twist my arm hard enough ill go with you.
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I want a full report by February!! Or you could make the 4 hr. drive to Durhamtown Plantation in the next 2 months, and if you twist my arm hard enough ill go with you.
LOL. Full report may have to wait til March. December is gonna be pretty frosty. However, I will give an installation review with pics, a first kick and idling video, and a short report of just taking it down the road and back. It will probably be too frickin cold for much else. I got my first mx race of the season in March so there will definitely be a full report then.
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LOL. Full report may have to wait til March. December is gonna be pretty frosty. However, I will give an installation review with pics, a first kick and idling video, and a short report of just taking it down the road and back. It will probably be too frickin cold for much else. I got my first mx race of the season in March so there will definitely be a full report then.
I was pretty excited to get that email from Liz it's been a long wait. Hopefully this is finally it. I'm looking forward to doing some testing this winter. When did you put your preorder in rablack?
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I was pretty excited to get that email from Liz it's been a long wait. Hopefully this is finally it. I'm looking forward to doing some testing this winter. When did you put your preorder in rablack?
I preordered around July so I am probably last on the list unfortunately. lol. But I have been following this product for over a year and a half. After trying out the billet version, I can't wait to get mine.
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I preordered around July so I am probably last on the list unfortunately. lol. But I have been following this product for over a year and a half. After trying out the billet version, I can't wait to get mine.
I did mine towards the end of July so I'm right back there with ya. I haven't got to try one out yet. I'll just be happy if I'm able to spend less time jetting and focus on other things like dialing in the suspension and tire setup. If it has the added power and efficiency that they claim that will be a bonus. We both need to post a lot of pictures and vids to make all these nay sayers jealous :tongue-new:
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Best I can tell from what I've read and seen of them they appear to be a Lectron copy that someone is trying to improve upon. That is fine, Lectron's patent ran out some years ago and there was room to improve . It also appears that all the preorder customers are fitting the bill for the R&D and mold changes to the cast version. I don't believe they are out to screw anybody and hopefully they get the cast versions worked out. I would be interested in seeing how they perform in the hands of a few builders on here.
I did a lot of testing on the Lectron carbs when I worked for Team Kawasaki in the late 1970s. Sparky Edmonds was the inventor/mold builder/owner of Lectron carbs. We tried every needle he made plus a lot of special needles and changes to the fuel circuits but he/we could not get the Lectrons to work as well as the round slide Mikunis on the works bikes. I think he sold the rights and molds to someone in the early 1980s but the new company could not seem to find enough willing buyers and Lectron carbs kind of dropped out of site for about 15 to 20years.
The drag racing community revived Lectron carbs when they started needing 40 mm plus carbs. Precise metering at all throttle positions is not a requirement for drag racing but a large diameter air passageway into an engine is needed.
Edmonds built another carb called the Blue Magnum which was basically a Lectron carb with a pilot and main jet with the Lectron type needle. I think that the Blue Magnum still needed more fuel circuits like the conventional two stroke carbs to meter fuel precisely at all throttle positions. I was told that he eventually sold the Blue Magnum molds to Edelbrock.
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Thats a neat tid bit of history Jerry. It's great to have someone on here that has been so involved in the industry.
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gimme a 48mm keihin and ill throw this lectron in the trash today :biggrin-new:
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I got the email from Liz last Saturday night too. Confirmed my shipping address and what machines I would use this on. I did my preorder late July too. To all the Nay Sayers, who cares what some of us are investing in? Not your money! All I have seen is a bunch of people bashing this and apt, gotta love it
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I don't think you won't get them all I ever thought was what a long wait and they seem sweet so I hope that are good. Everyone who has the billet is happy
I believe what you are seeing is a company offering a cheaper version of billet at X price. To achieve X price the whole process must be done economically. As the carb goes from one stage to the next the whole order cannot go on until that stage is completed. Kinda like mass production but not on a conveyor belt. Any small problem will be multiplied by the number of carbs being produced.
Our sponsor ESR went through the same problem with the cast clutch covers and center cases. Big problems arise if you get them all cast then find out for example the CB is hitting the case. Or the bearing is in the wrong location. The covers and cases took over a year to finish past the expected delivery date. Yall must be patient.
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I am not real sure how or where Lectron measures the bore of their carbs. Mikuni, Keihin, Delorito, Bing, Amal, Jacov, etc. have always rated their carburetor size by the minimum diameter of the air passageway through the carb.
Recently a customer sent me a LT500 Suzuki engine with a Lectron on it. He said it was a 48 Lectron. I measured the minimum diameter and I think I remember it to have been around 43 mm. Does anyone know where the most recent manufacture of the Lectron carbs takes their measurement for naming their carbs?
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this is what i figured on the 48hv. its stamped 48 on the front and 50 on the back so i guess its 2 different bodies bolted together. im guessing a regular 48 would measure about 43ish most of the way through and then perhaps it opens up at the front end to about 46.5. honestly i dont see where they get the 48 designation
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j357/doddledo/c9d737e2.jpg) (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/doddledo/media/c9d737e2.jpg.html)
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I believe what you are seeing is a company offering a cheaper version of billet at X price. To achieve X price the whole process must be done economically. As the carb goes from one stage to the next the whole order cannot go on until that stage is completed. Kinda like mass production but not on a conveyor belt. Any small problem will be multiplied by the number of carbs being produced.
Our sponsor ESR went through the same problem with the cast clutch covers and center cases. Big problems arise if you get them all cast then find out for example the CB is hitting the case. Or the bearing is in the wrong location. The covers and cases took over a year to finish past the expected delivery date. Yall must be patient.
This is exactly right. It takes longer this way, but it is the sacrifice you make for a cheaper price tag.
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Email from Liz at APT I just received :
To Our Pre-Order Customers,
American Performance Technologies is excited to announce to our SmartCarb pre-order customers an update regarding the progress and completion of the cast 38mm SmartCarb assembly and delivery timeline.
APT had previously announced that our 38mm castings and parts had arrived for assembly and release, but that the high-grade plastic slide inserts did not meet our quality standards. Our vendor has since implemented a fix and a tooling change and we are satisfied with the new inserts that they have sent us. We also performed a machining change on the slides to improve slide-sealing characteristics and low throttle and idle control.
We now feel that we have satisfied our obligations to ensure that our product meets and exceeds our customers’ high quality expectations. APT is currently working on reducing build time by standardizing our quality control checking steps for each SmartCarb that is released. We are building carbs in batches of 50 and foresee that all pre-orders will be satisfied within the next several weeks.
APT is proud to announce that SmartCarb shipments have begun. You should expect to see a notification and tracking number sent to your email once your SmartCarb has shipped. If you have any questions or concerns, please give us a call at 1-877-372-3465. Also, please be sure to check out the installation and tuning tutorial videos on our website (powerapt.com) to be posted in the next few days.
Wishing everyone a Brapppy New Year!
Stay tuned,
The APT SmartCarb Team
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Here is a dyno chart that was posted on ktmtalk.com. The cast version even shows power gains over the billet version. That's pretty cool. (http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_440_2017-04-18_4544.jpg)
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people are still having all kinds of problems with the cast carbs. ill bet theres even a few that havent posted of their issues because theyre probly embarrased and i dont blame em. theres a few smartcarb nutswingers that gave good reviews but the non-nut swingers have told of many problems
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An engine builder in Texas has been calling me on and off for about a month giving me reports of his experience with the Smart Carb. He finally received a cast Smart Carb in early January that has been on order for many months. The Smart Carb and cable was suppose to be set up for a YZ250. When the carb was ordered, APT said that they did a lot of testing on the YZ250. The throttle cable did not fit and the builder said the casting quality was poor. The builder installed the pre jetted carb and it was so lean it would not run any time the throttle was more than about half throttle.
The builder removed the needle that came in the carb. He called APT to check to see if maybe they installed the wrong needle. APT could not tell him what needle the carb should have. APT sent him a bunch of needles and has been working closely with him trying to come up with a needle and settting for the YZ 250. They now have it running at full throttle but runs rich at the smaller throttle positions. At this point in time the stock carb runs a lot better than any combination they have been able to find.
The customer wants APT to pay for the engine builders time that he is spending trying to dial in a "pre jetted carb". ATP refused to pay so they are considering returning the carb.
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people are still having all kinds of problems with the cast carbs. ill bet theres even a few that havent posted of their issues because theyre probly embarrased and i dont blame em. theres a few smartcarb nutswingers that gave good reviews but the non-nut swingers have told of many problems
What makes them nut swingers? Just because they gave their opinion and it was a good review?
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to me it just seems like some guys are butt kissers that want to hype up the smatcarb name, for reasons unknown. for instance there was one guy that posted a vid proclaiming how good he thought the carb was working. you can clearly hear the engine is not running very well
theres some honest people that dont follow the sheep herd and stated they been having problems. bike stalled and wouldnt restart, spring wasnt strong enough to close the slide. ive forgotten alot of the issues people are claiming because theres so many pages. go read for yourself
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Actually, I have read every single page. I keep up with it daily. You may have also noticed a few other things then. Such as alot of the issues being reported are due to user error and not necessarily related to the malfunctioning of the carb. You may have also noticed that the majority of people are not having issues with this carb; it's just that the ones that are tend to cry the loudest. You may have also noticed that Corey at Smart Carb has been on the forums and on the phone diligently assisting people who have had problems to get them going again. He has also spent alot of time setting up some troubleshooting information for people who have had an issue so they know why it is happening and they can stop it from continuing. I don't know about you, but I haven't had that kind of support from Keihin ever in my life.
No carb works perfect all the time and is idiotproof. Who out there has never had an issue of some sort with a carb. Whether it be self induced or age induced, issues will happen from time to time. From what I have read, getting the smart carb setup correctly from the get go is vital to its performance from then on out. Sounds like too many people are throwing them on and go to clicking and turning all the knobs before they even understand what they do. The new tuning videos and troubleshooting info from APT should correct this.
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so the lastest is problems with tip over balls. maybe castor is the reason ? change my oil to suit the carb, i dont think so. my keihin doesnt care what oil i use, 16:1 or 100:1 it doesnt matter. never a single problem with the slide spring. never flooded out and wouldnt restart. sugar coat it all you want but theres definatly some issues with the smartcarb. hell some guys are now worried it could be a safety issue ? ya i suppose if the engine stalls at the wrong time you might go azz over handle bars
i commend their effort to make something new and better but a few more years of testing would of been the better way. im sure apt is realizing that also
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still no complaints with my billet
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I got some info to pass along. Here is an update for ya: for better or worse.
I called and talked to Corey Dyess personally. I told him there were people on the forums that were agitated because they hadn't gotten their carbs, and possibly more importantly, they have not gotten any updates as to what is going on. This is why he told me.
I apologized for the lack of communication, but has, more or less, pulled everyone away from the phones to a certain extent to either help assemble carbs or package them or ship them. He said that Liz is not really answering the phone or emails right now because she is helping to package carbs and prepare shipping info. He said instead of issuing another excuse to people why the carbs weren't done to give people an update, they are pushing everybody they got to getting carbs finished and shipped. He said they will have all of the orders completed, shipping, or shipped by the end of 2 weeks. He is just now getting back to returning calls made to him and try to get back with customers. I actually left a message the first time I called and he called me back a couple hours later. He realizes that they have made some mistakes along the way, but they are trying the best they can to make everything right. He didn't want to spend any more time sending out updates as to why they weren't do, but wanted to spend all man power actually getting them finished and shipped instead. He said, "I know people will be happy with the actual product once they finally get what they have waited so long for." I asked him if he wanted me to pass along this information, and he said," yes, please do".
Hope this helps some of you that are still waiting.Thought you guys might want to know what's going on.
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Cool. I placed my order shortly after your ride reports rablack for a 38mm cast. I was told early May because of the volume they are shipping. Hopefully it comes sooner if they are pooling all there people to shipping.
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Cool deal. I also got some helpful tuning tips from Corey while I had them on the phone. Hit me up when you get yours and I will let you know or do another write up. Bottom line is, 2 strokes like this carb!
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thanks for the update. im starting to really stress out I have spent well over 11K on my 500R build and have been pushing the last 3 months to get it together for the ride we have at Little Sahara OK in 12 days. This Carb is the LAST PIECE TO THE PUZZLE! I just want my carb!!!! Thanks man, i will try and relax.
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thanks for the update. im starting to really stress out I have spent well over 11K on my 500R build and have been pushing the last 3 months to get it together for the ride we have at Little Sahara OK in 12 days. This Carb is the LAST PIECE TO THE PUZZLE! I just want my carb!!!! Thanks man, i will try and relax.
Heres the email I got today . I had the March 7 date.
Hello Tim,
It is closeŠ we will ship your carb in the next few business daysŠ most
likely on Tuesday.
I promise to send tracking information, we are running a bit behind
scheduleŠ obviously. There is no help for me and my rough guesses, the
only solution now is to get everyone's carbs shipped! :-) Call me if you
have any questions: 307-460-0524
Liz Harvey
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well then. i feel like a jerk all of the sudden. Liz just emailed me, they shipped mine today EXPRESS. LIZ YOU ARE MY FREAKING HERO
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well then. i feel like a jerk all of the sudden. Liz just emailed me, they shipped mine today EXPRESS. LIZ YOU ARE MY FREAKING HERO
Awesome! Glad to hear that Jason. I know it has been frustrating. I was fortunate enough to get mine a tad earlier than the other folks on the R forums. It still sucks to have to wait, so I have tried my best to give the most accurate feedback on this carb for you guys to keep you encouraged. I didn't realize Fire1 had ordered one as well. Be encouraged guys, I think you will find it well worth the wait. No, this carb doesn't not give you super powers. lol. I never tried to hype it up to that. But the carb does run as advertised. It is the best my motor has ever run. If you guys didn't read my review of the carb, I would strongly encourage you to pay close attention to 2 things. 1. Go through ALL of the instructions in the manual. Check everything it says to check, just to make sure everything is good to go before you begin riding and tuning. 2. Make sure you get the throttle cable adjusted just as described.
I never had an issue with any of these things, but from what I read from some of the dirt bike guys that tried these, not doing one of these 2 things seemed to cause most of their issues.
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thanks for the feedback, the reviews, and the checking in with them for updates. Steve you have been awesome. I expect this carb will be everything it has been hyped up to be, im excited for the bike to smell different and run crisp. nothing more, just a simple carb i dont have to screw around with swapping jets everytime I haul the bike to adifferent part of the country to ride (CA, IN, MO, MI, OK, ETC). I ride all over the country, i hate messing with jets everytime I pack my bike up to go somewhere. so excited to run this carb! After talking with Adam Millar about his thoughts on the billet SC and seeing the vids I think this carb will be everything it is talked up to be. i hope APT sees real growth because of this product, they appear to have worked hard to bring a great product to our 2 stroke market. Kudos to them!
I did pick up the cable that Liz suggested, its the motion pro cable T3 10-3000 which is threaded at the carb end and supposed to be super easy to adjust and tighten. its way nicer than the ones we normally run with our 39PWK's around here. I watched the install vids that Corey has up on their site, seems legit with how to install it and adjust the cable and slide properly. cant wait to finally have this infront of me to play with
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thanks for the feedback, the reviews, and the checking in with them for updates. Steve you have been awesome. I expect this carb will be everything it has been hyped up to be, im excited for the bike to smell different and run crisp. nothing more, just a simple carb i dont have to screw around with swapping jets everytime I haul the bike to adifferent part of the country to ride (CA, IN, MO, MI, OK, ETC). I ride all over the country, i hate messing with jets everytime I pack my bike up to go somewhere. so excited to run this carb! After talking with Adam Millar about his thoughts on the billet SC and seeing the vids I think this carb will be everything it is talked up to be. i hope APT sees real growth because of this product, they appear to have worked hard to bring a great product to our 2 stroke market. Kudos to them!
I did pick up the cable that Liz suggested, its the motion pro cable T3 10-3000 which is threaded at the carb end and supposed to be super easy to adjust and tighten. its way nicer than the ones we normally run with our 39PWK's around here. I watched the install vids that Corey has up on their site, seems legit with how to install it and adjust the cable and slide properly. cant wait to finally have this infront of me to play with
I could not agree with you more on the jets! Thanks for passing on the info on the cable. While I didn't use that cable on mine, it is another option. Just one question for you though....who is Steve?
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Here is some additional info that I have not mentioned yet on this site.
Some additional information that is noteworthy: Right now, the majority of APT carb sales are to Europe and Australia. Yes, places where 2 strokes are still thriving tremendously want these carbs as fast as they can get them. Pros in Europe are running these smart carbs. You won't find this in any magazine, but it was tweeted or commented on quietly. Ryan Villopoto has been quietly testing, developing, and riding a brand new Kawasaki 2 stroke for the last year or so. Someone he knows locally even had a smart carb on hand and threw it on the bike. Ryan got to ride it around and said he was very impressed and it shaved a full second off his lap time and that was with the 2 stroke already putting in a faster lap time that the 450.
Some additonal notes:
Even the spark plug color is a little different. Previously, you could rub your finger across the upper electrode and some of the dried black carbon would rub off on your hand. Now, it is just a black color that doesn't wipe off. It has been burned so completely, it doesn't leave that extra residue anymore. I found this strange to me, but kept this to myself. When I was talking to Corey the other day, he actually mentioned in our conversation without me bringing it up. He said this was due to the better atomization of the fuel.
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lmao. i assumed you were steve since that was who you suggested I say i got the number from. Typically when someone says 'tell them ____ sent you' i just assume that '_____' is the person i got the number from hahahahah. Let me start over, whats your name? My name is jason, nice to meet you ;)
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lmao. i assumed you were steve since that was who you suggested I say i got the number from. Typically when someone says 'tell them ____ sent you' i just assume that '_____' is the person i got the number from hahahahah. Let me start over, whats your name? My name is jason, nice to meet you ;)
^^^^Bahahahaha!!!!!! I told you that because I didn't want Liz to know that I gave your her number in case I wasn't supposed to. Steve was the name of their Sales manager who gave me her cell number.
FOCL - falling out of chair laughing!
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man i thought that name was familiar!!!!! I have talked to steve tutt like a dozen times!!! I was thinking to myself 'why does that name sound familiar....'
good times.
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I am Ryan, by the way. rablack is Ryan A. Black.
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holy crap i didnt realize what was happening over at .net with this carb. I am going to just avoid that site like the plague, people trying to argue over everything!
cant wait to get home in an hour and play with my new toy.
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holy crap i didnt realize what was happening over at .net with this carb. I am going to just avoid that site like the plague, people trying to argue over everything!
cant wait to get home in an hour and play with my new toy.
By all means, share you feedback when you get a chance to try it out, since I am such a liar and what not. lol. Careful on your feedback also, someone may call you a liar as well. LOL. You experience does not equal their intuition!
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well then. i feel like a jerk all of the sudden. Liz just emailed me, they shipped mine today EXPRESS. LIZ YOU ARE MY FREAKING HERO
Cool I hope mine ships soon!
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Whelp!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/sleepin-mr2/DAA5D1BC-7CEE-4122-9A14-2B0D9CF936C1_zpsb9n8tpl0.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/sleepin-mr2/media/DAA5D1BC-7CEE-4122-9A14-2B0D9CF936C1_zpsb9n8tpl0.jpg.html)
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So I hooked up the smart carb turned the petcock on and gas poring out the air filter. I would guess the cylinder and bottom end are full also. You cannot level the carb as it is already over sized. Doug told me about the problem before I put it on. Thought I would wait and see. Doesn't really matter if it works as it won't start!
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I am installing mine Tuesday night, I will let you know how mine goes. I hadn't heard about any issues like that pumashine, have you called them?
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I am installing mine Tuesday night, I will let you know how mine goes. I hadn't heard about any issues like that pumashine, have you called them?
This is the billet version. OldschoolR Doug let me borrow it while his bike was being rebuilt. He told me about the problem cause it happened to him. You could be out in the middle of nowhere and have this happen. something about the carb being level. Sounds like a crock of chit to me. I have heard this in my reading about these carbs also. So I'm supposed to fix this? Are you freaking serious. They can't build a $750 carb that does not work without flaws like this? Freaking ridiculous
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Contact Steve Liz or Corey. I'm pretty sure the issue that carb is having is with the coating on the tip valve balls, there's two little valves and the first coue runs of the billet carbs had issues with the anti tip valves balls sticking. They changed the coating and the problem stopped. Call apt, I have heard nothing but great things from them about handling issues like these. Either way sorry your billet carb isn't what you expected. I will let you guys know how my cast works
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So I hooked up the smart carb turned the petcock on and gas poring out the air filter. I would guess the cylinder and bottom end are full also. You cannot level the carb as it is already over sized. Doug told me about the problem before I put it on. Thought I would wait and see. Doesn't really matter if it works as it won't start!
Was the choke pulled up for initial fueling per the tag above?
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Was the choke pulled up for initial fueling per the tag above?
After turning the petcock on and before kicking over the choke is pulled.
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Doug never had any problems til that LS trip is what he told me. He had to turn off his gas constantly whenever we quit riding to take a break. His R did sound and run awesome tho. Personally I'm not sold on them yet, but I'm cheap and don't go ride all different places across the country so my jetting stays pretty much the same. They sound great in theory, but I'll wait. I'd actually be more interested in one for a dirt bike, but I don't like the idea of it pouring fuel out(or worse-into my motor). A lot of guys have been using Lectrons on their bikes, but those have problems too. For now I'm sticking with what works- my already jetted carb(s). I plan on just buying a newKeihin 38mm carb for my 85cr500 that I'm SLOWLY rebuilding. Yes jetting that won't be fun(or to hard either), but it can't be any less frustrating than some of the horror stories I've heard off.
It seems like some of you are having luck with the smartcarb and I'm glad you are. I do believe that there is a lot of potential in this product, but I'm def gonna wait and prob pass too.
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Doug never had any problems til that LS trip is what he told me. He had to turn off his gas constantly whenever we quit riding to take a break.
I think its just that we are not familiar with them yet. Could pull a kiehen apart and put back together in less than 5 minutes. I guess I am just afraid of ruining a $750 item. :lol: By the end of the week I will be know as pumasmart rebuild guru.
Thanks for the heads up Dennis, now I don't feel like such a retard. I thought Doug said it only happened to him once.
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I'm hopeful that this product works out. We have wild fluctuations in temperature here in MN.
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I don't blame you for being afraid to work on someone else's stuff like his carb Tony(especially since it's kinda irreplaceable now that the cast ones are out). IDK enough abt one to want to mess with one. I'll take the 5 min kiehen carb myself too as I'm used to them and already have a ton of jets and such for them.
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I don't blame you for not wanting to mess with something that belongs to another person. It sounds like there might be an underlying issue going on with the carb that shouldn't be happening. I'm sure that if Doug contacted Corey at APT, I'm sure they would take care of it. They have been nothing but helpful an courteous when I have called. That sounds like what needs to take place. There is clearly something going on there. There were a few things different on the first generation billet version that aren't like the newer billets and cast versions. Sounds like Doug really needs to make a call and see what's up. I'm eager to see how Jason's reaction is when he gets to try his in the next day or two.
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From what I understand the first gen billets are different. When I ordered my cast there was the first gen on sale for $625 but you could also order the newer ones at the 750 still. Hopefully they corrected the issue.
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I am all but sure that the first gen billet versions didn't have the tip over valve like my cast version has. That pertains to those floating balls someone mentioned.
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Got mine in Monday (http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/Allison55/image-21.jpg) (http://s603.photobucket.com/user/Allison55/media/image-21.jpg.html)
Feels good to finally get my hands on this thing. They also sent me a needle to try it out on my cr 500 too
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Cool deal, Allison#51. Let us know what you think once you have had time to run it a bit.
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let us know how it runs on your cr500. I had nothing but trouble trying to run it on my cr500 motor, WILL NOT start and run normally unless the carb is set around 50 clicks which makes the damn thing rich as hell. Frustrated me to no end out at little sahara last week. I was going to send it back to APT but will try it on my 310 first. I hope to try it on the 310 next week sometime, but i seriously cant put it into words how frustrated i was with this carb last week when it came time to try and ride the damn bike.
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Hey Jason, did you have them set your carb up with the needle for the CR 500? I know they had a problem initially because the need for stock to 350cc would not work for the CR500 motors. Apparently the CR500 have a unique fuel curve requirement.
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I've calmed down alot since the ride and issues i had. Was just extremely frustrated when the bike wouldnt start, i just need more time playing with it i guess. Corey said the carb would 'break in' and be easier to start after the first hour or so of use. I did initially use the wrong needle on this bike; they sent the cr500 76 needle in a baggie and the needle for the 310 was in the carb. cr500 motor was SOOOOO LEAN when i got it going it was surging and mad as hell. swapped to the 76 proper needle and it ran much better, i just need to adjust it more and find the sweet spot for this carb and motor. I plan to try the smart carb on the 310 in the next week or so though.
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tore my 500 motor apart sunday because of tranny issues. I had used the carb on that motor on the trip to little sahara and rode the bike around the parking lot for a few laps and discovered tranny issues so i parked it. someone noticed gas dripping from the mouth of the carb onto the motor so I shut the petcock off and didnt think anymore about the issue. a week later (last sunday) we tear the motor down to fix the transmission and find the pipe is FULL of gas, same goes for the bottom end. I mean like an 8 ounce cup of fluid full. I had tried running the bike again after we pulled clutch apart at little sahara and messed with the shifter and i spent 20 minutes trying to get the bike going. Good thing it wouldnt start, the gas sitting in the pipe and motor could have potentially hydrolocked it. Emailed Liz at APT about the flooding issue, i dont want to have to be turning the pet cock off everytime i stop the engine.
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Jason, just checking a couple things. Did you shake the carb when you first got it to hear if the balls inside were free and hear them moving? Also, are you using Castor oil?
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I run klotz 40:1 which is 20% castor oil. I didnt shake the carb but I have been good about pulling the choke lever up before turning the fuel on. as it is I am swapping the carb over to my 310 bike, the 500 is a new motor and this is just one more thing to be trouble shooting on a $2K motor that I just dont care to fight with anymore. the 310 is reliable and starts first kick everytime, hopefully the smartcarb can handle operating on that bike without issues. I just dont want to tinker with stuff anymore, if i cant get it to work on the 310 than its going back to APT.
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I was just wondering because it sounds like there may be an issue will the balls in the check valve. I think it mentioned in the instructions to make sure you could hear those balls moving around. The other issue is through testing they had a few issues with Castor based oils as well. Something about it causing the balls to stick together. Anyway, I hope you get it figured out. These carbs have great potential.
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you suggesting theres a problem with my balls ?!?!
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you suggesting theres a problem with my balls ?!?!
Hey man, when you start rubbing castor oil on your balls, it starts to go beyond just a powersports lubricant! LOL
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You shall now be known as "Slick Willy"! LOL
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lmao!
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Hahaha leave you guys alone for 5 minutes and this is what happens! :lol:
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Contact Steve Liz or Corey. I'm pretty sure the issue that carb is having is with the coating on the tip valve balls, there's two little valves and the first coue runs of the billet carbs had issues with the anti tip valves balls sticking.
Well the manual says when it floods you have to make an adjustment on the floats (page 32) So I measured where the tab was and bent it an additional .060". Hook up the fuel again on to my surprise the floats kicked in. You must then pull the float bowl again to see if you have .775" worth of space from the edge of the float bowl down to the fuel. I measured .735" so it should be close enough. Its not flooding. Big problem I see is the float bowl is missing the drain like all the pics you get in the manual. Can't drain this puppy.
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Looks like the bottom end is flooded from the last go around. Tipped it up on the front wheels and pumped a little gas out. Tipped up on back wheels and did the same. I will let it set until tomorrow with the spark plug out. Hopefully the gas evaporates.
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Looks like the bottom end is flooded from the last go around. Tipped it up on the front wheels and pumped a little gas out. Tipped up on back wheels and did the same. I will let it set until tomorrow with the spark plug out. Hopefully the gas evaporates.
Remove the spark plug, turn of the fuel to the carb, turn switch off, put it in 1st or 2nd gear, hold the throttle wide open and push it about 30 ft or until you do not see any vapor coming out of the spark plug hole. The flood should be cleared unless the pipe is full of fuel. If the pipe is full of fuel you will probably have to remove the pipe or lean the bike to the right while standing the bike up to let the fuel run out of the pipe.
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Is difficult starting and flooding a common problem on the Smart Carb? I was thinking about ordering one but now I'm having second thoughts.
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Is difficult starting and flooding a common problem on the Smart Carb? I was thinking about ordering one but now I'm having second thoughts.
The flooding did happen occasionally on the old billet versions, but I haven't heard or experienced any on the new cast versions or billet versions.
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Remove the spark plug, turn switch off, put it in 1st or 2nd gear, hold the throttle wide open and push it about 30 ft. The flood should be cleared unless the pipe is full of fuel.
Never heard of the Jerry. Thanks for the info. I will remember that.
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Never heard of the Jerry. Thanks for the info. I will remember that.
Its hard to do with paddle tires on so I am going to grab the knobbies and give it a try this morning.
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Is difficult starting and flooding a common problem on the Smart Carb? I was thinking about ordering one but now I'm having second thoughts.
Yes..The carbs appears to still have some design problems and it is a common consensus they are still having quality control problems in their manufacturing processes.
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Yes..The carbs appears to still have some design problems and it is a common consensus they are still having quality control problems in their manufacturing processes.
You say this is a common consensus. Among whom? The common consensus among those who are running them on 250r's is that they work just fine. The common consensus among the largest group that has purchased these carbs, which would be the dirt bike market is also that the carb they received work just fine. Yes, there was a small percentage that have had issues in the beginning, but only a small percentage, not the majority.
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OK so heres a pic of me working on the smart carb
(http://i57.tinypic.com/11rf5g3.jpg)
when I put the tank and plug back in it actually tried for the first time since January. But would not start. Waited 15 minutes and almost started. Waiting..................Try again!!!!!!!!!Yes, my registration is expired got a new tag yesterday.
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Ok, it finally started. I have one day before hitting the dunes. I am so happy I could just have a beo.(http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Trinken/smilie_trink_098.gif) (http://www.smilies.4-user.de) Beers down and I just had to set the idle a little lower. Took for a spin in the parking lot but cannot get out of second gear. But what is great is the throttle is crisp and clean opening up in second gear. This is where my Kiehien wants to about blubber. Am very excited about hitting the dunes this weekend.
Oh yeah, this is a 431 Puma dune ported by Pete at Hybrid engineering.
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Waited a little bit and started her back up. Normal 2 or 3 kicks. Definitely have the bottom end power I never had before. Like turbo in 2nd gear. Freakin scary
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Waited a little bit and started her back up. Normal 2 or 3 kicks. Definitely have the bottom end power I never had before. Like turbo in 2nd gear. Freakin scary
I think you got it now, Tony. Hold on tight! lol
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I think you got it now, Tony. Hold on tight! lol
Yes Ryan, I about gave up on this thing. But I convinced my self if you can do it I should be able to figure it out. Day 3 and its just gonna get better.
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Yes Ryan, I about gave up on this thing. But I convinced my self if you can do it I should be able to figure it out. Day 3 and its just gonna get better.
Yes, if a retard like myself can do it, surely someone of your caliber and expertise can make it work. :newhere:
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Yes, if a retard like myself can do it, surely someone of your caliber and expertise can make it work. :newhere:
I was just messin with ya. When you take on a new product its like you have to read the directions 3X to get it right.
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What size carb are you using on the 431?
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The 40mm billet version. Oldschoolr let me borrow while he is doing his rebuild.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/mtv8y9.jpg)
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Thay things a beauty Clark!
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Thay things a beauty Clark!
We got 2 more members to try it out this weekend. OJ and Pat want to know what a smart carb does!!! Ride report coming Sunday
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Wow, looks sweet. Is there a reason you went with the billet version? I just called APT and the guy on the phone tried to sell me on the billet version. He said the tolerances are tighter (which means better performance?) and it is more serviceable. I was thinking about getting the cast version because $700 bucks is a little steep for a carb, but if it works better I might be able to convince myself to pony up the extra money. I certainly think the billet looks better than the gray cast version.
It looks like a tight fit. Any fitment problems?
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Glad you got it fired up Puma mine is still performing great couldn't be more pleased !
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It looks like a tight fit. Any fitment problems?
The manual shows it is 3/4" longer than the stock carb. Yes, it is tight. The flanges between carb and intake about touch. Its hard to make the corner. This is a 431cc motor. You need at least a 38mm just to make it run. The 40mm has not been cast yet. So you have to pay if you need the bigger carb. The 38 cast should work fine for motors up to 363cc
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The funny thing is they said that the cast versions would also be 3/4" longer from flange to flange than a keihin carb, but mine measured the exact same as my keihin 38 A/S did.
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Cool Ryan Apt's spec sheet says the cast ones are the same length as pwk.
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Cool Ryan Apt's spec sheet says the cast ones are the same length as pwk.
The lil ribbed intake manifold boot does not want to be sqaure to each flange. Kinda has to make the corner. Next time I will use the smooth radiator hose type boot.
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Tried running the smart carb yesterday. It needed the mid-range richened up. Very snappy off throttle but would act like its running out of gas. I went to take off and go for a plug check and the motor about died until I let of the throttle. This happened a few times while testing. Went back to the parking lot and richen it up. Did like 4 clicks to rich. Tried again and only seemed a little bit better. Went back to do a few more clicks and the retainer clip came off. I had forgot where the Allen wrenches were and decided to pack it up. There was alot of snappy bottom end which the Kiehien just never had. Today I pull it apart and put it back together wrong and the adjuster would not click. I am not sure I got the adjuster to work yesterday. So I decided the use a screwdriver to see where this was set. I read here they set them at 50 clicks from rich. I turned the adjustment 94 clicks until it got real hard to turn. So were talking it was set 44 clicks to the lean side. No wonder it was not working correctly. I think I will set it 60 clicks from rich and start, there. I think I saw where Jasons cr500 was supposed to be set 72 clicks from rich. Since this is a 431 I am thinking this is a little safer than the 94 clicks it was at. Any idea's?
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Do they offer different needles or metering rods for different applications, or do they all use the same rod and it is just a matter of adjusting the knob on top?
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Do they offer different needles or metering rods for different applications, or do they all use the same rod and it is just a matter of adjusting the knob on top?
They give you a top end metering rod for your application. The mid-range is worked by a thumb screw adjuster on the top of the carb and the idle circuit is a thumb screw on the side. There are only 3 adjustments overall. A different metering rod has to be ordered separate for a different application.
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Tony,
Just a little background info for you. I believe that most of the carbs they set up to be 50-58 clicks from full rich, atleast I know for sure they do on the 250-350cc engines. I think the problem that you are running into is that you are running that carb on a 431cc and it was set up for a 363cc. The needle affects just above midrange through full throttle. The click adjuster only affects off idle up to mid throttle with some bleed over. I bet that APT recommends a different needle for your size engine that would work alot better. I bet this is where your problem lies.
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where you guys at with this? i just picked up a 38mm cast.
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Survey
I would also like an update on those that bought smart carbs back in 2015 or earlier.
Were you able to tune them to your satisfaction?
Were you able to tune them to run more reliable, better fuel mileage, fewer seized or holed pistons than a Keihin or Mikuni carb?
Are you still running them?
If you had it to do over, would you buy another Smart Carb? ...............and why.
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Smart carb is junk!
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I have been pleased with my 40mm billet. It's definitely less temperature and altitude sensitive than pwk.