TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Suspension and Chassis => Topic started by: wretched73 on October 09, 2013, 09:47:45 AM
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I currently have a set of +2 roll design a-arms with triple rate works shock w/ remote rezzy. I believe they are 16 1/2" eye to eye (I should re-measure to be certain). I am also unsure what they are set up for.
As for my rear shock I currently have a stock 250r shock. In the garage I have a works ultra cross shock that needs to be rebuilt. Also unsure what the rear shock was built for.
I am just curious as to what my best option would be.
1) run what I have
2) run my stock 1988 front and rear shocks
3) buy trx 450r stock shocks and run them as is
4) buy trx 450r stock shocks and send them out to be built
5) get my works shocks rebuilt
Next season will be the first time I run flat track and I am trying to get into it in a cost effective manner. IE, I dont want to break the bank but Im also not trying to do it for free (if that makes sense). If i had to put a price on what I want to spend on shocks overall before next season.... I'd say I would like to keep it under $1000. (Cheaper would be better, as long as I can be competitive, so I could put some money elsewhere such as fresh wheels and tires and motor work).
I've found it hard to find any succinct information I need on this subject so I thank everyone for their input.
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I would take the shocks you have for the front and have them set up by either sfracing for flat track/tt racing and have the stock rear shock done as well by him for this and sell the works rear to fund the deal some. Properly set up shocks for tt and a swaybar and durablue rear adjusable link will make a world of differnece on the track for you bud. I use to run flat track with only tt tires a rear adj link and mess with my mx front shocks a little and piss the guys other racers off because I was riding my mx bike and spanking them all around.
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Can you put up a pic of those Works ?.
What I need to see is the shock body, to see how many clip grooves they have.
Some Works, only had a few grooves in the bodys & then a real thick spacer to the spring retainer, so not much can be done with those, but if theres a lot of grooves on the body, then your in luck.
The rear shock, you need the little thin soft spring & some spacers & a go between so you can set the ride height.
If you still have the stock rear shock linkage, you need to get an adjustable dog bone so you can change the ride height there as well.
Back many years ago, you could take a front pair of Yamaha blaster shocks, grind the mounting eye down narrowing it, so it would fit into the frame mount on the 250R & they would set the front of a 250R up for flat track. They work out to be the right length & from the mounting points being different on the R frame, it made the shocks stiffer. Was a cheap way to go about it, cause you know not everybody walks around with a pocket full of $100 dollar bills to throw away.
Neil
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If you send your shocks out call Andy at Maul Tech Atv,great guy to talk to,plus hes a 250r guy and does alot of flat track setups.
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Are you running a lowering kit front/rear?... Do you also have a sway-bar???......What kind of rear tires are you going to run also????...Your rear shock can be made to work as well as the fronts....I would spend my money on the before mentioned items and make the shocks work if you are tight on funds.....Contact me if you need anything ...I will hook you up.....
Jeff
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Thanks for the replies. I will get pics tomorrow. Sway bar and adjustable link are noted. Just waiting to find a nice sway bar for sale used
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I know just recently there was a few rear lowering links for sale, and a heads up when you get the link they are year spacific also. And good luck on finding a used sway bar. Far and few in between.
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I know just recently there was a few rear lowering links for sale, and a heads up when you get the link they are year spacific also. And good luck on finding a used sway bar. Far and few in between.
Haha well I'll stay optimistic. Worse comes to worse I'll buy new
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Haha well I'll stay optimistic. Worse comes to worse I'll buy new
Yah that wasn't ment as abad thing they just dont pop up as after as other parts do. But see if a swaybar from another quad will work off of a 450 and if so if all you will need is the mounts and so on
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I have about 10 different used swaybars...take your choice...Everything from a Rath to a Durablue to a JL style and more...Let me know what your budget is and I will let you know what I have for that price range.....I also have a few front lowering kits if you are interested.....
Jeff
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Yes,if they have the sliding mounts,like most good ones do,a 450r one will work.
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Sounds like Ferrins got you covered, now if we could just get him to drive east a little ways & race with us, it sure would be nice.
Neil
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I sure wish I could Neil....But when you own your own business you are pretty much married to it and time becomes a precious commodity...Racing here in California as far as flattrack and TT is pretty much non existent.....I think due to the economy and the wonderful bureaucrats we have out here shutting down racing in general...Also due to the fact that none of the manufacturers or ATV shops out here seem to not want anything to do with racing....Just selling their products seems to be it......Really stupid I think because that was pretty much behind the Three wheeler craze and the quad craze in the 80's was the competition on the track....And competition on the track equals more parts sales.....These shops just do not seem to be able to figure that out...... I have a promoter at a track 50 miles from where I live..(10 miles from Pismo Beach)...Who is really interested in having Quad races whether it be flattrack or Motocross.....Problem is I cannot get any riders to commit to showing up.....Kind of crazy in my book with Pismo being 10 miles away.....And you and I know it isn't that hard to switch a dune quad over to a quad that will run on a flattrack.....
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Wretched73 PM sent
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I sure wish I could Neil....But when you own your own business you are pretty much married to it and time becomes a precious commodity...Racing here in California as far as flattrack and TT is pretty much non existent.....I think due to the economy and the wonderful bureaucrats we have out here shutting down racing in general...Also due to the fact that none of the manufacturers or ATV shops out here seem to not want anything to do with racing....Just selling their products seems to be it......Really stupid I think because that was pretty much behind the Three wheeler craze and the quad craze in the 80's was the competition on the track....And competition on the track equals more parts sales.....These shops just do not seem to be able to figure that out...... I have a promoter at a track 50 miles from where I live..(10 miles from Pismo Beach)...Who is really interested in having Quad races whether it be flattrack or Motocross.....Problem is I cannot get any riders to commit to showing up.....Kind of crazy in my book with Pismo being 10 miles away.....And you and I know it isn't that hard to switch a dune quad over to a quad that will run on a flattrack.....
I see what your saying & for the most part that is right, but when you get to digging into what is going on & understanding what happened, you'll find out the OEMs & AMA got together in each others back pockets, OEM started producing these new 4 pokers & then AMA dropped all the classes excluding the 2 strokes, so what is a rider/racer to do, if they wanted to keep on racing they had to get a 4 poke.
That being as it was, then what is a performance shop to do but stop on the 2 stroke & start with the high dollar 4 poke stuff. That big jump for a shop, put them to making 4 times as much money as they were with the 2 strokes & it really didnt mater how crappy the engine builds were because they were going to blow up anyways.
OEMs did this really, but it has & is taking its toll, because we are loosing riders every weekend, in any bike or quad racing arena from going broke trying to keep them 4 pokers running. That is not a guess either, its a fact & AMA has been realizing it in the past few years.
When you go from say like $1000.00 at the most, after every season to rebuild your 2 stroke to $3~$5000.00 maybe before the season is even over to build a new 4 poke engine, unless somebodys got some big pockets, the average AM riders not going to be there long, cause Mom & Dads going to be out of cash quick.
These shops building these 4 poke engines, are taking riders for a ride with this big money they are making.
I hate it, cause I can see what the OEMs are doing to racing & it cant keep going on like it is.
I'm trying as much as I can to get 2 strokes back, even got 2 strokes back in the EDT Pro Am class & upped the max CC limit to 306cc & still cant get any riders to give up those easy riding 4 pokers.
That easy ride has blinded a bunch of riders, but boy are they paying for it.
Neil
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I see what your saying & for the most part that is right, but when you get to digging into what is going on & understanding what happened, you'll find out the OEMs & AMA got together in each others back pockets, OEM started producing these new 4 pokers & then AMA dropped all the classes excluding the 2 strokes, so what is a rider/racer to do, if they wanted to keep on racing they had to get a 4 poke.
That being as it was, then what is a performance shop to do but stop on the 2 stroke & start with the high dollar 4 poke stuff. That big jump for a shop, put them to making 4 times as much money as they were with the 2 strokes & it really didnt mater how crappy the engine builds were because they were going to blow up anyways.
OEMs did this really, but it has & is taking its toll, because we are loosing riders every weekend, in any bike or quad racing arena from going broke trying to keep them 4 pokers running. That is not a guess either, its a fact & AMA has been realizing it in the past few years.
When you go from say like $1000.00 at the most, after every season to rebuild your 2 stroke to $3~$5000.00 maybe before the season is even over to build a new 4 poke engine, unless somebodys got some big pockets, the average AM riders not going to be there long, cause Mom & Dads going to be out of cash quick.
These shops building these 4 poke engines, are taking riders for a ride with this big money they are making.
I hate it, cause I can see what the OEMs are doing to racing & it cant keep going on like it is.
I'm trying as much as I can to get 2 strokes back, even got 2 strokes back in the EDT Pro Am class & upped the max CC limit to 306cc & still cant get any riders to give up those easy riding 4 pokers.
That easy ride has blinded a bunch of riders, but boy are they paying for it.
Neil
With that point made. A lot of atv racers could transition into big cars, such as the crate sportsman series. And run a big car, with higher payout, more venues to race at, bigger sponsors, and a bigger crowd. For the same cost. A GM crate motor will cost roughly $3200 to your door, and you can get 4+ seasons out of running it, with only valve springs being replaced every season.
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I understand what you are saying Neil...There was a time that my self and my son stopped racing....My son joined the service and went to Iraq....And to tell you the truth running races without my son being there just wasn't much fun.....So after two tours of a year and a half each to Iraq...my son got leave and so we decided to build a couple of 250r's and go racing.....Boy were we in for a shock!....We went to sign in and low and behold there wasn't even a class for a 250r two stroke, the people running the event didn't even know what one was!.....This was a blow to me because after racing in the 80's where there being such a huge 250r turnout, that just starting on the front row was a win in itself,....to where they didn't even know what a 250r was?????...Unbelievable!......Another factor I believe is the cost of just buying a new quad....In the fall of 88 we got the new 1989 Honda Quad models in and we sold Brand new 1989 quads for $3295.....That was a chunk of change then but still doable...What do they go for now????Almost $8000.00????..Yeah what kid at $10.00 and hour is going to get one of those???? .....Also out here there are so little places to ride that who would want to spend that kind of money to have to travel three hours before you could even ride it....Gone are the days when I used to roll my quad out of the garage....Ride it down the street to the river bed and ride for hours......Now it is save the river bed....you will destroy the willow trees....(those damn trees are nothing but a mess and suck up water like its going out of style)...My City Council just passed an ordinance where if you get caught anywhere in the City Limits riding....even in your backyard it is a $500.00 fine.......Second offense $750.00....Third offense 6 months in the county jail..a $1000.00 fine and your quad/bike is confiscated and sold........No wonder kids don't ride around here!!!!...They are more interested in teaching kids to drink wine and eat foo-foo food around here.....Great family values!.....What a joke..
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Wretched 73....You don't have to explain money and racing cars to me..LOL...LOL...I have a Ford powered 360 Sprint car...If I was to add up what it took to get me to the track and what it costs me for just one night of racing I think I probably wouldn't race anymore....LOL.....Buy a brand new right rear for 250.00 and watch it go up in smoke in one night.......But I tell you what ...There is nothing like the feeling of standing on the gas of a 1300 pd sprint car with 700 hp under the hood.......For some strange reason it just makes the cost not seem so bad after all......LOL
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My buddy drove a ss sprint car with a Chevy 358 on alcohol. It was a blast to watch them race.
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c-leigh this is the only pic i have that shows my front shocks as of now, my quad is at my buddy's shop so im trying to get a better one
but if you click on it you can get it to enlarge pretty well, with good detail
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w279/terelle737/250r/2013-05-16_122220_zps170d4dc4.jpg) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/terelle737/media/250r/2013-05-16_122220_zps170d4dc4.jpg.html)
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I would recommend starting over with your shocks and buy new. You will be money ahead in the end and come out with a better setup. You can buy a set of HLS front for $495 + shipping. Those works will never work good unless you install new pistons in them. The problem with the stock 450R is that you can't get the shocks compressed length short enough for TT racing. I'd recommend a Custom Axis rear for this. They are only and extra $150 more than the HLS rear. I'm not trying to sell you shocks but just giving my opinion here. TT is VERY critical on suspension setup and you can not band aid setup for this type of racing and make the bike hook up, corner, be plush and have good bottoming resistance. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. As soon as GoPro gets off their butt and makes some more cameras I'm planning on shooting a TT specific video series.
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Yeah what Andy said!!! After you get shocks then you can put it on scales and set the shocks and the swaybar. I thought I would do a "cheap" Pep/Lsr setup on my stock 86',yeah that was a no go. I got schooled real fast on that setup,and that was just at our practice track. My Laeger was closer,with a better setup,but I didnt have a chance to get the Axis built for TT. If you want to hang with the four strokes you really do need a complete,dialed setup. If you have buddies that TT competitively,take their quad for a spin,you will be amazed at how hard they hook and handle.
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(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w279/terelle737/250r/2013-10-12155026_zps3e34038b.jpg) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/terelle737/media/250r/2013-10-12155026_zps3e34038b.jpg.html)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w279/terelle737/250r/2013-10-12155202_zps660bc28d.jpg) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/terelle737/media/250r/2013-10-12155202_zps660bc28d.jpg.html)
Pics of the shock body.
Andy, thank you for your honesty. I know you are highly respected and I appreciate your input. If going with all new shocks is the way I need to go, then so be it. My friend races crate sportsman on a dirt oval track so I know exactly how important it is to have your setup perfect, and perfect for how you like to drive. I will keep in contact about where I should go setup wise for shocks, as of now at least I know I should look into selling my works and saving up for something better.
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Wretched 73....Is this your first time out racing flattrack???...I respect what others are saying here but personally I would get your swaybar ....A good set of tires...Adjust your ride height..(Via lowering kits) and give it a try before you spend a ton of money on shocks.....You can make your shocks work.....They just won't be the best out there and your quad may not handle like it's on rails....but it will get you out there so that you can get a taste of what flattrack is all about......It's my guess that once you are out there you will be hooked and will spend more money to get everything you need......If you've already raced then ignore my above post......LOL...LOL
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Wretched 73....Is this your first time out racing flattrack???...I respect what others are saying here but personally I would get your swaybar ....A good set of tires...Adjust your ride height..(Via lowering kits) and give it a try before you spend a ton of money on shocks.....You can make your shocks work.....They just won't be the best out there and your quad may not handle like it's on rails....but it will get you out there so that you can get a taste of what flattrack is all about......It's my guess that once you are out there you will be hooked and will spend more money to get everything you need......If you've already raced then ignore my above post......LOL...LOL
My racing experience only includes back yard, dirt oval tracks. On a go kart (a legit flat head racing kart) and on my quad, how it sits hahah. My close friend has all the "real" racing experience. I work on his car and pit for him. I'm sure I'll get the bug and really race my quad hard, but I think as of now I'm going to agree with you on not buying the shocks... At least not right away. Racing season is still months away so I will gather all the other parts I need first... Then focus on my shock situation last.
Thank you everyone for the excellent advice, I'm sure I'll have more questions
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I found a set of stock blaster shocks from my old '04 blaster I used to have. When I get my sway bar and rear link I'll throw them on and run them on our woods track. Then I can compare it to my works shocks