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Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: csides66 on October 09, 2013, 09:04:45 PM
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What should I do guys?? I went to drain the oil in the new 88 purchase I got last month and I noticed thread tape on the drain plug. When I put the plug back in it never tightened back up. Took it back out and noticed metal shavings on the bolt. Knowing its an aluminum case and 14 is already larger than factory it looks like the guy before me was a strong arm! What is the best course of action from this point? It will still thread up "kinda" it's not a smooth there are catches.
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Check real well to make sure your case is not cracked.. I had mine tapped out for 14 mm and when I got it back from a professional builder I noticed it was cracked in 2 spots. They told me it was like that and to just 3 bond the bolt when I put it in. I thought the right thing to do would have been to weld or braze the crack but their excuse not to do that was it was to close to the edge of the case and the heat would make the center gasket not seal. Im not so sure a profesional would have had a problem doing this but what do I know. I used teflon tape and its worked fine. It would be impossible to get silicone to dry to an oily surface after the first oil change so Teflon tape is my alternative.
On to your problem.. I believe there is an insert you should be able to get that you could try. Someone else here should have info on these.
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Timesert, not cheap but is probably the best solution.
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if you have a fastenal around they have a steel insert similar to timesert. seems like its only 10 or $15. be darn sure you drill and tap the new hole for the insert perfectly straight or its gonna leak
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Timesert is the best way, the insert is cheaper, I have seen lately the plastic drain plugs that will not hurt your existing threads but still seal up. Well thats what is claimed. Your local shop can do it for around $30 but want the cases split. I did a thread on the other site where I drilled and tapped for the timesert without spliting the cases. A friend had taken a fill plug and drilled and glues a plastic tube hooked to an air fitting. Using a low pressure stream of air the metal shavings come out the bottom during the procedure. I have lots of used fill plugs if you need one. Some guys have found a site that actually loan out the kit to put the timesert in. I think the kit cost is around $100 or more
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http://www.fastenal.com/web/products?term=thread+repair&r=~|categoryl1:"600000 Fasteners"|~ ~|categoryl2:"600186 Thread Repair"|~ ~|categoryl3:"605514 Keyserts"|~&termca=&termpx=&sortby=webrank&sortdir=descending&searchmode=productSearch&zipcode=&filterByStore=&filterByVendingMachine=&pageno=1
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I agree with the fellas timesert is the best way to go expensive though. I introduced these to my boss at work and now he swears by them. We have salvaged many parts thanks to the timesert. These are a hundred times better than any helicoil.
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Thanks guys!! I'm going to check out the timesert today! I'll keep you posted.
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Thanks guys!! I'm going to check out the timesert today! I'll keep you posted.
You may get confused by the different kits. Different lengths of inserts come with the rest of the tools needed. I will try to get you a part# today. If you attempt to do it while on the bike be careful when drilling out the hole that you do not hit the shift shaft. That is the only reason the local shop won't do it without the cases split. The shop also gets cheap and puts the longer inserts in, then drills a hole to let the oil drain. And they epoxy it in. The 3 I have done have not leaked. You want to use the shortest insert possible. I am thinking there is a short video that shows you how to do the process.
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You may get confused by the different kits. Different lengths of inserts come with the rest of the tools needed. I will try to get you a part# today. If you attempt to do it while on the bike be careful when drilling out the hole that you do not hit the shift shaft. That is the only reason the local shop won't do it without the cases split. The shop also gets cheap and puts the longer inserts in, then drills a hole to let the oil drain. And they epoxy it in. The 3 I have done have not leaked. You want to use the shortest insert possible. I am thinking there is a short video that shows you how to do the process.
That would be a huge help!! Thanks!! I planned on just tipping the "R" onto the rear grab bar to do the work. And running diesel fuel through the case to get any shavings out. I watched the video of a time-sert installation on youtube, that helped me wrap my mind around what work needed to be done. If you could help me get the right tools it would be MUCH appreciated! I know the drainbolt that was in it Miked at 13.78mm but my brother who is the mechanic of the operation called it 14mm x 1.5. IS it possible to do a time-sert that could go back to a factory 12mm?
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Found this... http://www.amazon.com/TIME-SERT-1-50-Metric-Drain-1415C/dp/B003TNHFG2
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What about those drain bolt kits you can get at Advance~Auto Zone with different size self tapping bolts.
Neil
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Found this... http://www.amazon.com/TIME-SERT-1-50-Metric-Drain-1415C/dp/B003TNHFG2
Yep, thats it! Here the air method I used
(http://i44.tinypic.com/10rofp0.jpg)
And the tools in the kit.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2r5f3iu.jpg)
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What about those drain bolt kits you can get at Advance~Auto Zone with different size self tapping bolts.
Neil
With out the movie "grease" referenced... Tell me more!
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Upsss, lokie dair, ol shinemup boys got all you need, just need a box to ship in, you ship back with a few rent dollars included & your ready to go riding.
Only thing, next time you pull that drain bolt, when you put it back in, use two fingers & a thum on that 3/8 drive ratchet & scocket & twist with your wrist & you'll never strip it out again.
Neil
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T IS it possible to do a time-sert that could go back to a factory 12mm?
Yes, you have the wrong kit listed. Part# 1215 is the M12x1.5 insert which I was referring to.Puts you back for the stock plug
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Yes, you have the wrong kit listed. Part# 1215 is the M12x1.5 insert which I was referring to.Puts you back for the stock plug
So even though the hole is tapped for 14mm the 12mm x 1.5 will work and I can get a 12mm drain plug.
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The 12mm kit has a drill with the diameter of .480". If the hole in your case is larger than that it will not work. Some of the other brand of inserts use a larger pilot hole. I am not familiar with those.
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The 12mm kit has a drill with the diameter of .480". If the hole in your case is larger than that it will not work. Some of the other brand of inserts use a larger pilot hole. I am not familiar with those.
I went to a Drill bit conversion table and .480 is a smidge more than 12mm which is logical for a 12mm insert. The drain plug we pulled out of this ATV "miked" aka Micrometer at 13.78mm so it looks like i will have to stay with 14mm kit i guess.
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the original bolt is 12 mm ? someone stripped that out and put in a 14mm ? now the 14mm is stripped out ? gonna have to drill and tap cases to 16mm now. im assuming the timesert OD will be 16mm and ID will be 12mm. thats how other inserts are. is there even enough material in the cases for that large of hole ? good luck. hard as hell to drill the hole straight with a black and decker. no easy chore taping the threads straight either
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ive had good luck using spark plug repair kits as long as you keep the tap straight. i usually chamfer the hole after its tapped and the insert fits flush with the case then locktite it in place. the kits are like $8-$15 at a auto parts store.
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With out the movie "grease" referenced... Tell me more!
Not quite following the "grease" part of your reply, but those oil pan drain bolt kits, have different size short bolts, washers & even screw in type rubber plugs & they are a self tapping type from like a 3/8s up to I think a 16mm. Theres several ways using that kit to repair a stripped out oil pan drain bolt hole.
Neil
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had the same problem last week i went to advance and found a oversize self tapping 14mm drain bolt run it in and out till i got enough threads to hold and then ground the drain plug down till it wouldn't hit the shifter shaft and it works like a charm with no leak.:ride:
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had the same problem last week i went to advance and found a oversize self tapping 14mm drain bolt run it in and out till i got enough threads to hold and then ground the drain plug down till it wouldn't hit the shifter shaft and it works like a charm with no leak.:ride:
You brought up a good point, grinding that drain bolt off some, because the only way trans oil can drain back into the trans area from the clutch area, is through a small hole in the bottom of the right case half right where the hole for the drain bolt goes & if the bolt is to long, it will block that hole up & keep the oil from draining back into the trans area.
Next time any of you have the clutch cover off, look under & behind the clutch & you'll see that small hole & probably will see threads of the drain bolt.
Neil
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You brought up a good point, grinding that drain bolt off some, because the only way trans oil can drain back into the trans area from the clutch area, is through a small hole in the bottom of the right case half right where the hole for the drain bolt goes & if the bolt is to long, it will block that hole up & keep the oil from draining back into the trans area.
Next time any of you have the clutch cover off, look under & behind the clutch & you'll see that small hole & probably will see threads of the drain bolt.
Neil
I did take your advice and did the oversized self tapping drain plug. I didn't grind it down. Should I just see how tall the stock plug is and grind down?
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I did take your advice and did the oversized self tapping drain plug. I didn't grind it down. Should I just see how tall the stock plug is and grind down?
Even the stock OEM drain plug is to long. If you were to grind the plug down enough that you couldnt see any of the threads on the bolt, with the aluminum washer in place, you wouldnt have but like 1/4" left of the threads, which is just about the thickness of the case where the drain hole is located.
If you had a way to do it, best way would be to taper the end of the bolt, so that the oil could pass through the hole & around the bolt, but either way the bolt threads will end up shorter.
Neil