TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: bnau267 on November 05, 2013, 11:00:44 PM
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Maybe I'm crazy but I see a lot of articles related to engine seizures. I run the hell out of my dirt bikes and never have to worry about this or any engine failure for that matter. My YZ is easily as reliable as my 400ex. I'm in my rookie season with the R and mainly run a bone stock 89. Do I need to worry about the R or are you guys just building them up and leaning them out so much that it puts the reliability at risk? I'm thinking about getting the LED 300 kit but would love to hear some expert views on reliability. I want to run pump gas too....
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I run the hell out of my 408 puma, 412 pilot cylinder and my 431 puma. Wide open throttle on the dunes for hours on end. Never seen a seizure. I believe the part about leaning them out is what the main problem must be. I run straight 110 race fuel and have a 15:1 compression ratio on all of them. Running klotz r-50 30:1 with 40.5mm keihen carbs. You can run a lower compression ratio and use pump gas all day long.
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I have an 86 250r that still has the original piston in it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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My uncle owns a 85 trike with original piston and it's Never been split ,starts up in about 3 to 5 kicks
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In 91 I put an oem long rod crank in my 86 after the big end rod bearing failed. Other than rebuilding the top end & installing new clutch steel's & fibers a few times over the years i'd have to say that 22 years of hard dune riding is a testament to the reliability of the 250R engine.
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My 89 is oem except plug, filter, and rings. I have an 86 that runs ok and has never been opened up. So what I'm hearing is that a 300 kit should be as reliable as hell. That's all I'm trying to get a feel for. I'd like to be able to run with the 450's when the road opens up and have a little more omph for climbing the hills. Guess I need to stop reading to much into the engine seizure stories....
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I would say very reliable. Most of the time when people have problems with them it is because of a jetting issue or air leak. Or something else dumb like forgetting to mix the oil. Of all the R's I had over the years and currently own I have never had one seize up or fly apart. And I run them summer and winter since the mid 90's.
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Of course many of us make the mistake of putting a pipe and K&N on with the airbox lid removed with out putting a large enough jet in the main. I seized the same cylinder 6 times after doing this mod. Then got a 310 and seized that one also. Some of us just can't stay off the throttle. Just needs to be jetted a little rich.
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Maybe I'm crazy but I see a lot of articles related to engine seizures. I run the hell out of my dirt bikes and never have to worry about this or any engine failure for that matter. My YZ is easily as reliable as my 400ex. I'm in my rookie season with the R and mainly run a bone stock 89. Do I need to worry about the R or are you guys just building them up and leaning them out so much that it puts the reliability at risk? I'm thinking about getting the LED 300 kit but would love to hear some expert views on reliability. I want to run pump gas too....
A stock Trx 250R is bullet proof not idiot proof.
The reason a stock 250R is bullet proof is because the engineers at Honda do a lot of testing and correct the design flaws and have the engine tuned fairly close when we buy them new.
We see a few common situations when owners are having reliability problems.
The majority of the aftermarket parts do not undergo enough testing to find and correct the design flaws before they are sold to the public.
Customers read the adds for different engine components and modifications offered by various shops, mail order companies and believe the claims in the adds.
We encounter one or more or a combinations of the most common errors/scenarios on a weekly basis:
!. I had xxxxxxxx port my cylinder because he said he had a new computer program on how to port cylinders or... the guy that ported my cylinder said that he would make me a good deal on porting and he can match up the porting to work with any exhaust pipe of my choice.
2. The customer has a shop build their engine that does not know how to test and select components that work together, that will be easy to tune and meet the longevity expectations for the type of engine build.
3. The customer decided that he can put together a winning engine package based upon the claims in the adds of various mail order companies and shops. The customer had someone port the cylinder for low end power. They bought the largest carburetor that will fit on their bike from someone else. The customer bought a pipe that was advertised to be a mid-range pipe. They bough a head with replaceable domes so that they can use pump gas. They bought a CDI box that allows them to change timing curves. The list of mismatched engine components just goes on and on.
The customer in # 3 usually spends a lot of money on components and modifications that will not work together and produce the results that seemed logical to him bases on the claims in the advertisements.
Find a engine builder that has a reputation for CONSISTENTLY building powerful, reliable and easy to tune engine packages for your model of engine and application. Listen to him and follow his advice and instructions carefully. A cook cannot expect a dish to turn out as expected it he does not follow EVERY instruction in the recipe. An engine builder that has these skills does NOT have to advertise to stay busy or does not need to stand on the corner in a clown costume waving a sign with a list of services and prices trying to attract another one time customer.
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Great response Jerry. You just nailed what I was hoping to accomplish with the post. Thanks. I'm working like a nut NOT to become the guy in scenario #3. I have two engines that I am 100% confident in with no worries - my stock 89 and 86. Probably leaving them that way. Got two engines that need to be married up with the right builder to get OEM type reliability that can hang with the 450's and my 4x4 buddies sporting 80hp. I've owned a newer KTM 300 and that is the type of power I'm looking for. So, I would like my R to feel similar to a stock KTM300 and have the reliability of a OEM 250R, YZ250, etc. I want to run Sunoco 94! Maybe this mill is not possible but this is my dream 250R engine.....PM me if you are that engine builder who can deliver this package and also picks up the phone and remembers my name (Bob) post sale.
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My R is pinned year round and its as sure as the sun rises in the east. Like the ad use to say "Best On Earth". Whether its a push mower, an R, an atc or a generator; Hondas just wont quit!
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Great response Jerry. You just nailed what I was hoping to accomplish with the post. Thanks. I'm working like a nut NOT to become the guy in scenario #3. I have two engines that I am 100% confident in with no worries - my stock 89 and 86. Probably leaving them that way. Got two engines that need to be married up with the right builder to get OEM type reliability that can hang with the 450's and my 4x4 buddies sporting 80hp. I've owned a newer KTM 300 and that is the type of power I'm looking for. So, I would like my R to feel similar to a stock KTM300 and have the reliability of a OEM 250R, YZ250, etc. I want to run Sunoco 94! Maybe this mill is not possible but this is my dream 250R engine.....PM me if you are that engine builder who can deliver this package and also picks up the phone and remembers my name (Bob) post sale.
I'm sure Jerry would do this also, but I don't have any experience with him.
Arlan @ LED is building a 350 Spyhnx for me right now and has been A+ with the customer service. I'm hoping by quad can run like the KTM 300 as well. I've ridden one of those and the power is perfect
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Check this tread out.
http://trx250r.org/showthread.php?711-bills-championship-winning-250R-(run-down-on-set-up)
Arlan at LED said he will offer his 300 for $1000 until February. If Arlan is not a reputable builder I don't know who is.
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Very well written Jerry
I have another customer to add to that list, the customer that makes changes to the builders setup before ever running the motor. now if runs good or bad who gets the credit or the blame
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A stock Trx 250R is bullet proof not idiot proof.
The reason a stock 250R is bullet proof is because the engineers at Honda do a lot of testing and correct the design flaws and have the engine tuned fairly close when we buy them new.
We see a few common situations when owners are having reliability problems.
The majority of the aftermarket parts do not undergo enough testing to find and correct the design flaws before they are sold to the public.
Customers read the adds for different engine components and modifications offered by various shops, mail order companies and believe the claims in the adds.
We encounter one or more or a combinations of the most common errors/scenarios on a weekly basis:
!. I had xxxxxxxx port my cylinder because he said he had a new computer program on how to port cylinders or... the guy that ported my cylinder said that he would make me a good deal on porting and he can match up the porting to work with any exhaust pipe of my choice.
2. The customer has a shop build their engine that does not know how to test and select components that work together, that will be easy to tune and meet the longevity expectations for the type of engine build.
3. The customer decided that he can put together a winning engine package based upon the claims in the adds of various mail order companies and shops. The customer had someone port the cylinder for low end power. They bought the largest carburetor that will fit on their bike from someone else. The customer bought a pipe that was advertised to be a mid-range pipe. They bough a head with replaceable domes so that they can use pump gas. They bought a CDI box that allows them to change timing curves. The list of mismatched engine components just goes on and on.
The customer in # 3 usually spends a lot of money on components and modifications that will not work together and produce the results that seemed logical to him bases on the claims in the advertisements.
Find a engine builder that has a reputation for CONSISTENTLY building powerful, reliable and easy to tune engine packages for your model of engine and application. Listen to him and follow his advice and instructions carefully. A cook cannot expect a dish to turn out as expected it he does not follow EVERY instruction in the recipe. An engine builder that has these skills does NOT have to advertise to stay busy or does not need to stand on the corner in a clown costume waving a sign with a list of services and prices trying to attract another one time customer.
agree with this 100%
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That OEM resleeved 300cc kit from LED looks like a very cool option. Would be interesting to see how it runs
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Personally found out the 300 OEM cylinders are prone to overheating.
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I have PWR's and a boyesen super cooler on my YZ. It's a cold blooded beast. Do oversize rad's make a big difference on the R or is everything restricted by the impeller jug design?
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I wish I could comment on how reliable they are but I was one who had a bad exhaust leak and fried my piston.
Make sure you just have everything sealed up! I do have a PWR as well but haven't gotten to run it for that long. I can say that it's just that little extra insurance to keep the bigger engines cool.
Just my .02
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Watched your video - bad break man. I can only hope my Aren build turns out as nice as yours did.
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Great response Jerry. You just nailed what I was hoping to accomplish with the post. Thanks. I'm working like a nut NOT to become the guy in scenario #3. I have two engines that I am 100% confident in with no worries - my stock 89 and 86. Probably leaving them that way. Got two engines that need to be married up with the right builder to get OEM type reliability that can hang with the 450's and my 4x4 buddies sporting 80hp. I've owned a newer KTM 300 and that is the type of power I'm looking for. So, I would like my R to feel similar to a stock KTM300 and have the reliability of a OEM 250R, YZ250, etc. I want to run Sunoco 94! Maybe this mill is not possible but this is my dream 250R engine.....PM me if you are that engine builder who can deliver this package and also picks up the phone and remembers my name (Bob) post sale.
remember the ktm has a PV. convincing a nonPV engine to perform the same way might be a tall order :)
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It's reliable enough that I ran the last dune trip with part of the metal sealing ring on my exhaust flange missing. How much exactly? IDK because I didn't try to piece it back together. BTW I didn't know part of it was missing until after the trip, but did notice extra spooge there.
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What about CT and Duncan PV engines. Do they hold their own with the Factory PV bikes?
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arlen can build you a sphinx PV that would outperform any factory cylinder. check out his sub-forum and he has videos explaining all that he can do:
http://trx250r.org/forumdisplay.php?49-LED-Performance
john
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What about CT and Duncan PV engines. Do they hold their own with the Factory PV bikes?
which 300ktm did you have ? you can mix and match alot of items and have similar bikes but they run quit a bit different. mine started out as a '13 250sx. put on the 300 kit and kept all the sx items which are different than the xc stuff. lighter crank, different ign curve, different head design, different transmission, different flywheel. just trying understand what ktm you want your honda to be like.
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The 300 kit on the 250SX is way to angry for me! Couldn't afford getting a R back in 89 and have been on different 250's since 91', got a KTM 300 in 03, and switched to a used 06 YZ250 about 5 years ago. I suppose I'm used to having a power valve. Adding a weighted flywheel to a pretty much stock 2006 YZ250 (with pipe/reeds) is about what I'd call perfect for my taste.
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this 300 is the first bike ive had with a PV. my other bikes are old junkers from the mid 90's no PV. was skeptical to even buy it because i wasnt sure if it would have enough power. was suprised it ran alot better than i expected. pretty sure it would do 50hp on most any dyno. probly 35-40torq. not bad for a production bike that still has to be rideable. advertised weight is around 215 which is fairly light. to bad honda threw in the towel on their 2t stuff. im sure they would have a worthy machine also
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I wouldn't mind getting a new KTM XC. Heck even the 150xc makes for a fun trail bike. Everyone says the xc line rips better than ever plus come with the button!