TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: mwiley on December 10, 2013, 12:45:46 PM
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So, I have a 2001 CR ignition that has never worked. I mean it has massive kickback, and has never fired up. My bike runs on the stock ignition just fine and has no problems. I have replaced everything from the stator windings from Ricky stator to another CDI, flywheel a brand new coil and plug, good grounds yada yada yada. The only thing I have not replaced is the the actual wire harness and the pick up. Everything has continuity and ohms out in spec. Now here is the thing that is really baffling me. If you look at the CR250 ignition wiring diagram from Honda that is posted in the Tech section it shows that there are 2 grounds that join together from the coil and stator plate and then to the plug for the cdi. Mine is different and looks to be all factory connections. My ground from the stator plate joins the green/white from the pick up and then goes to the plug with out ever connecting to the ground for the coil. This gives the pickup a direct path to ground and I don't know if it is correct. I need to know if the Honda manual is wrong or if I have some sort of ******* child? And should I just try and disconnect the stator ground from the pickup and connect it to the coil ground like the manual shows? Here are a couple of picks.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2667[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2668[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2669[/ATTACH]
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Took a close up pic of my 2001. Seems to look different. Was your rebuilt?
(http://i39.tinypic.com/35d9obk.jpg)
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is your timing correct? what adapter plate are you using.
john
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The stator itself is a replacement from Ricky Stator, I still have the original. I have not degreed the motor with a timing wheel yet. The adaptor plate was purchased from ebay and advertised as an ESR plate. So, any ideas on what is the correct wiring config for the grounds?
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So, any ideas on what is the correct wiring config for the grounds?
The green wire and the green wire with white stripe both go to separate prongs on the CDI as seen in pic. The green and white wire goes to the stator and the green one goes to the ground on the coil. I am not seeing them hooked together on my stock harness but they may be back by the stator
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2s7gy1d.jpg)
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Puma, could you do me favor and unhook your plug from the cdi and then tell me if you have continuity from the green/white at the plug to the ground wire at the stator. I had to cut the cover off the wiring harness to find out that the ground from the stator was connected to the green/white from the pickup.
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you should have two grounds. one for the coil and one is for the harness
john
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I do have 2 grounds. And according to the Honda manual those 2 grounds should connect to each other in the harness and then proceed to the cdi plug. My two grounds do not connect to each other. I am trying to find out if the manual is wrong or is it my harness.
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Puma, could you do me favor and unhook your plug from the cdi and then tell me if you have continuity from the green/white at the plug to the ground wire at the stator. I had to cut the cover off the wiring harness to find out that the ground from the stator was connected to the green/white from the pickup.
I would if I could find the ohm meter. Don't know where it went.
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Did someone float the ground in the harness for dc lighting?
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Did someone float the ground in the harness for dc lighting?
I would hope not seeing all 8 poles are for spark, the cr doesnt have low voltage auxillarly coils for lighting only high voltage for spark
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Oh yea I forgot the cr is a whole system I was thinking it tied into oem chassis brain fart...
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Try running an additional ground from the coil to another spot on the frame
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Try running an additional ground from the coil to another spot on the frame
Already tried that too.
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I am pretty sure the green white from the pickup coil should not be grounded in any way it will more than likely work once you remove the stator ground from that.
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Sure would be nice, if ol Teamgeeks6 from Mac Dizzy was still around, now he knowed somethin bout sparking.
Neil
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So, I tried removing the ground from the green/white wire and then connecting the ground like the manual shows and now it no long kicks back because there is no spark! And just to make my blood pressure go up a little more I found another hidden surprise in the harness wrapped in some nice black vinyl shrink tube.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2688[/ATTACH]
That is the two wires from the pickup, so someone has either replaced the wires themselves or the pickup unit and now I am questioning if it is even the correct one for this stator since it has a green/red wire. Does anyone know where I could get just a known working pickup? Also, if someone running a cr ignition would be kind enough to unplug their cdi and check for continuity between the green/white wire at the plug and their ground, I would be most gracious.
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I am still pretty sure that the pickup coil wires do not go to ground, what did you do with the green wire that you removed from the green/white pickup wire ?
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I looked at a wiring diagram for the cr ignition and the green/white from the pickup coil does NOT go to ground they are isolated and go directly back to the CDI
The Green wire from the stator goes to the green wire that connects to the ignition coil
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I connected the ground from the stator to the ground from the coil like the manual shows.
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that coil and stator green wire should also go to the cdi, is that how you have done it?
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that coil and stator green wire should also go to the cdi, is that how you have done it?
Yes that is how I have it now.
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Hey Wiley,
does look like your wiring needs to be looked closely. I have few systems here and have also built a couple using parts from the CR125 stator assembles. The joining of the stator ground (Green ) and the pickup (green n Yellow ) is correct. The ground from the coil goes directly to the CDI. look closely at Puma' system. yours should look like his.
The one thing that has not been talked about is your flywheel. The flywheel must match the CDI. What are the numbers and letters on the CDI and Flywheel?
Take note of the KZ3V on puma's CDI and stator plate. The flywheel should also have KZ3V if 2001. KZ3T if 2000
The timing will b off if the flywheel is not a 2000 or 2001.
Hope this helps.
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Good job slowride! I just looked at one of my stators and you are correct that the stator solid green wire and the pickup coil grn/white wire have the same continuity and the coils green wire to the coil goes solely to the cdi. That is odd that they wired that that way especially with 2 different color coded wires blending together
and I question what schematic I was reading I found on Google must have been a earlier year 250r even though I searched the for a 01 :(
and yes the cr125 flywheel is way off timing wise
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Thanks Slowride250R,
I talked to Rickystator and they told me the same thing about the stator ground and said it was common for Honda to do that. The green/white wire from the pickup for the Honda usually ends up being a ground and this means that the wiring schematic in the Honda manual is wrong as well. (Doesn't surprise me at all). It is just my luck that I seem to have a one off problem and a trusted source for info never updated their changes. I have both years for my choice of flywheels. I was under the belief that both the 2000 and 2001 used the same flywheels, just different part #s. I also have both year CDI's as well. So I can match everything by year and go from there. I will keep on updating as I go.
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97-01 cr250 flywheels can interchange but the cr125 does not
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Thanks rsss396,
Just as an FYI for everyone Rickystator sells just the pickups alone for $39. Also all the Honda wiring schematics for the 125, 250, and 500 all show the stator ground connecting to the coil ground. So most likely these drawings are just reused over and over and either not been updated or the cr250 harness is just the red headed step child of the group. You can find some schematic's on Service Honda's website for the cr500 unit they offer and the diagram is pretty much the same as the 250.
http://www.servicehonda.com/images/stories/preowned_files/digitalignition/cr500dc.jpg
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Update time, she runs!!! Thanks to all who helped and now I have found a new possible cause for kickback. I gotta really thank Ricky Stator for their help. As soon as I told him what I found and what was going on he had the answer immediately. Before I give the cause of all my headaches, I want to hear some of your guesses.
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Sheared flywheel key?
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Sheared flywheel key?
No, that would be to easy.
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Hey Wiley,
Congrats on getting it running!!
The pickup coil and generator coils from the 99-01 CR125s work great with the 00 and 01 CDI, but they have to be mounted on a CR250 stator plate . The 125 flywheels have a different keyway placement.
I would try to stay with the 00 and 01 CR250 flywheel. I know that the 98 flywheel will not fire with the 00 and 01.
By any chance did you try to mount the pickup coil in the original position on the balancer cover? ;0) lol
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I have ran a 98 flywheel on a 00-01 stator/cdi
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Hey There rsss396.
I tried it and had no luck. ;O(
maybe I have a bad 98 wheel? just tossed it in the pile and moved on to the 00 and 01. It is getting harder to get the 00 or 01 wheel. it would be nice to have other
options. I would like to try others, but don't want to buy a bunch of stuff I cant use.
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Ok, I will tell you all what the problem was. Pickups are directional. Whoever was monkeying around with the pickup to begin with, soldered it backwards. As soon as I talked to Ricky Stator he told me to just flip the wires, and low and be hold it worked. What is even more funny now is the wires off the pickup have no color coordination to them at all. It actually looks like the wires are crossed. Wherever that pickup came from the direction is reversed from a standard 01 cr. So now I have a complete 2001 cr ignition on the bike and an extra 2000 cdi, flywheel and the stock Honda stator coil itself. Slowride250r, it's funny that you mention the 125 coils and pickups cause I was gonna try that next if flipping the pickup wires didn't work. So now I learned that the Honda wiring schematic is wrong, a reversed pickup will cause the motor to fire 180 off, the green/white wire from the pickup goes back to ground, just because someone took the time to make the harness look like it just came out of the factory doesn't mean they knew what they were doing, and I hate when people on ebay try to sell you something they know doesn't work.
Goodnight to all,
Mike
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CDI's fire on the negative voltage signal coming from the pickup coil, when the flywheels timing tab first passes the pickup coil it creates a positive voltage signal then at the the trailing edge of the tab it creates a negative voltage signal that triggers the CDI.
I did not think that the CDI would fire without seeing the positive signal first but in your case it must be. You would not be 180 degrees off on timing but you would be advance the amount of degrees equal to the length of the timing tab.
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I will have to see who in our group has a 98-99 flywheel that we tested but we ran it on my bench tester and everything seemed normal.
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rsss
That would be great!!!
I would like to have other options. I feel that the 99 wheel may work, but haven't tried one yet. 98 was an odd year. Honda changed the ignitions on both the 125 and 250,but only used it for one year. they did the same in 99, but the 99 worked better and had good timing curves. the 99 - 00 used all of the same components with the difference being the CDI.
I have simply changed the pickup and generator coil from a 99 CR125 stator over to a 98 CR250 stator plate and wired the plug to match the 00-01 CDI. It leaves you with an extra plug housing to set on the shelf :o), but works like a charm!!! I raced that one on my bike all last season and had nothing but success.
I look forward to hearing the results of your testing.
Thanks
Robert