TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: turkey_drag on April 23, 2014, 02:26:39 PM
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My pro x 310 cylinder took a crap on my last bike on the final bore so its time to get it re-sleeved. Ive searched and read some stuff on the nikasil plating and have seen that a lot of people are for it. Just read some bad vibe on Millenium although they did the bore and plating on my Yfz 470 and I am happy with that work. Cylinder was ported by Jeremy Bennight a few years ago and Im in love with the port job so I know it will need quality port matching. I like the idea of doing the nik plating. Just wondering if its practical for a 2 stroke cylinder.
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what are you going to plate too,a new steel sleeve. sorry if that sounds like a dumb question
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ive had millenium replate several and they did a good job. checked them with bore gauge and they were good. but if you need any special welding i would send it else where. their welder is a moron. besides the idiot welder the only complaint i had was the chamfers on the port windows. not that it was a bad job but they did a big ass radius which can make the window open sooner than its supposed to. ill be sending them another replate soon but im gonna do the chamfers myself. so ya ive been happy with the plating theyve done but the chamfers and welding ill do myself from now on
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It'll be a steel sleeve, but I really like the idea of the nikasil plating. The cylinder won't need any welding done on it, just sleeve and decked. Millennium did a good job on my yfz cylinder but then again no ports to match there. I think I'll give la sleeve a try. They have been around forever and I haven't read much bad vibe on them. I want the port job to be exactly as it was, hits like a lightswitch up high and I love it.
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Don't know if there is only one welder at Millennium, but when I got my puma with a broken skirt back, you could not tell it had been welded at all. I believe they only champhor the plating so I doubt they put a huge radius there to change your port timing. But I guess anything could happen.
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ive had millenium replate several and they did a good job. checked them with bore gauge and they were good. but if you need any special welding i would send it else where. their welder is a moron. besides the idiot welder the only complaint i had was the chamfers on the port windows. not that it was a bad job but they did a big ass radius which can make the window open sooner than its supposed to. ill be sending them another replate soon but im gonna do the chamfers myself. so ya ive been happy with the plating theyve done but the chamfers and welding ill do myself from now on
I have had hundreds of cylinders plated, and cracks repaired, broken spicots etc. I have had problems with all of the other platers in the USA other than Millenium. Millenium has always done an excellent job for me.
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Thanks for the input Jerry, have you ever had anything done at la sleeve? I like the work millennium did on my yfz cylinder. And my r cylinder doesn't need any welding so I'll probably just use them.
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Thanks for the input Jerry, have you ever had anything done at la sleeve? I like the work millennium did on my yfz cylinder. And my r cylinder doesn't need any welding so I'll probably just use them.
No I have not had anything done at LA Sleeve. I buy some parts and sleeves from them but have never had them do any machine work for me. We have a fully equipped machine shop and do all of the machine work in house. LA Sleeve does their own sleeving in house but sends out cylinders to have them plated, I do not know who does their plating.
We have the usual and customary machine tools required for the type of work we do. We have lathes, mills. surface grinders, boring bars, valve grinders, Sunnen mandrel hones, drill presses, many bench grinders, tig, mig, ox- acetylene, arc, spot welders, sheet metal brakes, sheet metal shears, many sheet metal rollers, band saws, cold cut saws and horizontal band saw for large diameter stock. We also have a CNC mill and and a 12 station CNC lathe. We have 3 punch presses and dies
We have the equipment to do all of the seat and guide work on the multi-valve 4-stroke heads. We make our own custom carbide seat cutter profiles in house so that we can quickly cut any shape seat or bowl that our flow testing and dyno testing shows beneficial.
We have 2 semi automatic mandrel tube benders that will bend up to 2 inch tubing and one CNC mandrel tube bender that will bend up to 3" tubing. We have a selection of mandrels and dies of various radii for 5/8" to 3.0" tubing. We have a high speed tube cutter, a tube roll out machine, tube flaring machine and a tube end finisher.
Our testing equipment includes 4 engine dynos and one large drum in-ground chassis dyno. We can measure power from engines that develop power in the range of zero to over 1000 HP. We have air flow testing equipment that can flow approximately 700 CFM at 28" of test pressure. We have multiple data acquisition systems that can acquire data while testing in house at rates up to 100,000 reading per second.
The high speed data acquisition equipment can show us the pressure wave forms in the exhaust system, inside the crank case and inside the cylinder over one engine revolution at max engine RPMs. Our other data acquisition systems can gathers about 40 channels of information at rates of over 1000 samples per second such as temperatures, air flow rates, pressure, force, vibration, barometric pressure, RPM, acceleration, or information form any type of sensor that produces and electrical output signal.
We have 2 radar systems, one that streams data to a laptop and the other that can record two speed simultaneously. We have a stand alone data acquisition system that we use to gather 16 channels of information from vehicles when we are testing at the race track or in the field.
We have a lot of other equipment that supports the above mentioned equipment as well as a lot of other stuff that is good to have on hand when you need it.
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I am very surprised to hear bad review of Millenium period, especially there welding. I have seen cylinders repaired that should have been thrown away, with no signs of welding whatsoever.
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No I have not had anything done at LA Sleeve. I buy some parts and sleeves from them but have never had them do any machine work for me. We have a fully equipped machine shop and do all of the machine work in house. LA Sleeve does their own sleeving in house but sends out cylinders to have them plated, I do not know who does their plating.
We have the usual and customary machine tools required for the type of work we do. We have lathes, mills. surface grinders, boring bars, valve grinders, Sunnen mandrel hones, drill presses, many bench grinders, tig, mig, ox- acetylene, arc, spot welders, sheet metal brakes, sheet metal shears, many sheet metal rollers, band saws, cold cut saws and horizontal band saw for large diameter stock. We also have a CNC mill and and a 12 station CNC lathe. We have 3 punch presses and dies
We have the equipment to do all of the seat and guide work on the multi-valve 4-stroke heads. We make our own custom carbide seat cutter profiles in house so that we can quickly cut any shape seat or bowl that our flow testing and dyno testing shows beneficial.
We have 2 semi automatic mandrel tube benders that will bend up to 2 inch tubing and one CNC mandrel tube bender that will bend up to 3" tubing. We have a selection of mandrels and dies of various radii for 5/8" to 3.0" tubing. We have a high speed tube cutter, a tube roll out machine, tube flaring machine and a tube end finisher.
Our testing equipment includes 4 engine dynos and one large drum in-ground chassis dyno. We can measure power from engines that develop power in the range of zero to over 1000 HP. We have air flow testing equipment that can flow approximately 700 CFM at 28" of test pressure. We have multiple data acquisition systems that can acquire data while testing in house at rates up to 100,000 reading per second.
The high speed data acquisition equipment can show us the pressure wave forms in the exhaust system, inside the crank case and inside the cylinder over one engine revolution at max engine RPMs. Our other data acquisition systems can gathers about 40 channels of information at rates of over 1000 samples per second such as temperatures, air flow rates, pressure, force, vibration, barometric pressure, RPM, acceleration, or information form any type of sensor that produces and electrical output signal.
We have 2 radar systems, one that streams data to a laptop and the other that can record two speed simultaneously. We have a stand alone data acquisition system that we use to gather 16 channels of information from vehicles when we are testing at the race track or in the field.
We have a lot of other equipment that supports the above mentioned equipment as well as a lot of other stuff that is good to have on hand when you need it.
wow ,do you give tours
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I am very surprised to hear bad review of Millenium period, especially there welding. I have seen cylinders repaired that should have been thrown away, with no signs of welding whatsoever.
its not that the welding was bad. what was bad is i sent them a cylinder for replate along with specific instructions of what i needed welded, it was on the outside at the rear transfers. i even went so far as to put modeling clay on the specific areas so there would be no confusion what so ever. needless to say they welded more than what they were supposed to and now i have to grind a bunch of weld out of the pockets where the base nuts sit. besides the fact that i told them exactly where it needed welder which was not in the pockets, common sense would tell you not to weld the pockets where i have to put the cylinder nuts . . i have before and after photos to document everything but i think everyone understands so i dont need to post the pics. then again i might just so you can see what happened or better yet what went wrong. like i said before the plating theyve done ive been 100% happy with. live and learn i guess. already stopped in to the local welding supply store looking at new machines so i can do my own next time
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Dang Jerry lol, Im happy that I have my mig,plasma, sheet metal brake etc. Then again I dont do this for a living and you do. Ill do some thinking on it and decide where Im going to send it. It was a good running setup on the short rod crank so I would definitely like to keep it and utilize it again. Also debating on whether or not I want to punch it out to a 330. I dont really want to have the cases bored, but think I would enjoy the increase in power. Not to keen on the spacer plates either.
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wow ,do you give tours
No we do not need to give tours......... We have all of our stuff crammed into a 5000 square foot shop and you can see most of it from one vantage point.:eagerness: We have too much equipment for the size of our shop. If the economy ever gets going again we have the land to build/expand to double the current shop size.
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Dang Jerry lol, Im happy that I have my mig,plasma, sheet metal brake etc. Then again I dont do this for a living and you do. Ill do some thinking on it and decide where Im going to send it. It was a good running setup on the short rod crank so I would definitely like to keep it and utilize it again. Also debating on whether or not I want to punch it out to a 330. I dont really want to have the cases bored, but think I would enjoy the increase in power. Not to keen on the spacer plates either.
You do not need a spacer plate for a 330 but you should bore the cases to accept the big sleeve. I like my pistons fully supported by the sleeve for the full length of the stroke. Some shops cut the sleeve off and let the piston do a hula dance because it is unsupported when it goes down into the cases.
The short rod cranks run real good. The short rods are a little stronger than the long rods. Everyone is hung up on the fad of using as long of a connecting rod as possible. Honda used the same length rod in the CR 250 for about 20 years. I think Honda's engineers also did a lot of testing and probably came to the same conclusion on con rod length as I did.
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No we do not need to give tours......... We have all of our stuff crammed into a 5000 square foot shop and you can see most of it from one vantage point.:eagerness: We have too much equipment for the size of our shop. If the economy ever gets going again we have the land to build/expand to double the current shop size.
Wasn't suggesting that you needed to give tours.....I just wanted one (tour that is) thanks didn't mean to piss you off because I love seeing you post on here
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You do not need a spacer plate for a 330 but you should bore the cases to accept the big sleeve. I like my pistons fully supported by the sleeve for the full length of the stroke. Some shops cut the sleeve off and let the piston do a hula dance because it is unsupported when it goes down into the cases.
The short rod cranks run real good. The short rods are a little stronger than the long rods. Everyone is hung up on the fad of using as long of a connecting rod as possible. Honda used the same length rod in the CR 250 for about 20 years. I think Honda's engineers also did a lot of testing and probably came to the same conclusion on con rod length as I did.
I have always had short rod engines. I have my old 86 crank that Im gonna send to Crankworks and have them rebuild and balance. My buddy has an ESR 330 that they bobbed the sleeve on and he wishes now that he would have bored the cases, he just didnt wanna split the bottom. I have another set of mint 85 cases I got off Puma, plan on boring them and powder coating them then going ground up with all new bearings etc.
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Wasn't suggesting that you needed to give tours.....I just wanted one (tour that is) thanks didn't mean to piss you off because I love seeing you post on here
I am not pissed off. I was trying to be sarcastic/funny and say that our shop is so small that you can stand in one place, spin 360 and see almost everything without having to walk around to tour our facility. Yes we show people our operations almost every day.
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I have always had short rod engines. I have my old 86 crank that Im gonna send to Crankworks and have them rebuild and balance. My buddy has an ESR 330 that they bobbed the sleeve on and he wishes now that he would have bored the cases, he just didnt wanna split the bottom. I have another set of mint 85 cases I got off Puma, plan on boring them and powder coating them then going ground up with all new bearings etc.
We machine cases and build cranks.
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We machine cases and build cranks.
Sweet. I'm prolly not gonna build it till say June or July. This factory cylinder still has plenty of juice left and I'm gonna flog on it a little more before I jump in. But ill give you a shout when it's time to machine the cases and rebuild that crank. Do you do in house balancing? The cylinder I already sent to millennium.
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i think we could say that honda engineers knew a thing or two. but i have to question a few things they did. a large majority of the engines were bridged exh. i dont recall even 1 single person with a fair amount of 2t knowledge saying they would prefer a bridged design. all the highest of the high performance engines use mono port with auxillaries. it just works better
its been proven a longer rod works better on rotary valve engines. as for a reed valver a shorter rod may work alittle better, maybe. i suppose there would be 100 variables that need to be concidered also. with a short rod i guess the case compression could be higher and perhaps the reed valve will work better if the pressure differentials are greater. i have to wonder if that isnt part of the reason for the honda rod length which is the same length that all the other 250 bikes use. but once the engine is modified how much of the factory engineered parameters go out the window for something better ?
while we are on the subject, im not a big fan of hondas choice for ring pin location. it just limits the width on the rear transfer ports. so i see it as a poor choice of location with no benefits
im not baggin on honda because i own one myself but i dont see those engineers as geniuses like some poeple try to make them out to be
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so back to the original topic at hand which is millenium. heres why im not happy with their welder.
this is what they were supposed to do
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j357/doddledo/IMG_20140318_202003_zps2a5e63f6.jpg)
heres what they sent back and yes both sides are just as bad. damn pockets is full of weld. now ive got to try and grind this shit back out perfect with my porting tools and hope i get it right so the nut can sit flat or pay the local machinist to do it. even if i had a lathe,mill and cnc machine i still would be pissed because it would take away valuable time i could be using for other projects. ya ill still have them do my plating but it'll be a cold day in hell before that clown they have for a welder touches anything of mine again
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j357/doddledo/IMG_20140413_120345_zps21d53b9a.jpg)