TRX250R.ORG
Classifieds => Wanted => Topic started by: Mickkey82984 on May 02, 2014, 09:22:53 AM
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Hey guys,
I'm going to have Jerry Hall build me a inframe pipe for my dune ported 363 sphynx, were looking to find as many pipes as possible that guys say works good on the sphynx to see how the engine responds to different pipe dimensions. You can ship it straight to Jerry's shop in Phoenix,AZ. As long as it cool with Jerry all dyno info will be posted. I'll pay Shipping and can give you some extra for the help. Let me know if any of you guys can help me out.
Thanks,
Mike
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If you are paying for shipping then I probably have a inframe FTZ drag pipe I can send, I will even let Jerry cut the end of the stinger off that necks down from 1-1/4 to 1-1/8 for the stock silencer. that way both stinger sizes can be compared
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I may be able to help out with a shearer sphynx out of frame depending on when..
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If you are paying for shipping then I probably have a inframe FTZ drag pipe I can send, I will even let Jerry cut the end of the stinger off that necks down from 1-1/4 to 1-1/8 for the stock silencer. that way both stinger sizes can be compared
That would be awesome, I can pay shipping no problem. It problably won't be for another month. Its so dry up here in Northern Arizona their going to shut the forest down real soon, so I'm trying to get as much riding done as possible now.
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I may be able to help out with a shearer sphynx out of frame depending on when..
That be awesome, I probably won't even get my bike down to Jerry until after Memorial Day so maybe in a month or so. Let me know if that will work for you.
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That probably will be bad timing for us and Mr250sx since our season is just winding up
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I have a FTZ HI-rev inframe pipe that i wont be using until winter.
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I have a Sparks MX that you can borrow, it's all clapped out but will work for your needs. Although you might blow up the 363 with this small of a stinger and header diameter lol
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I have got a couple old LRD pipes that came with the last 250R I bought. They're standard stinger. But if you'd like to run those, then just let me know.
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I am in Phoenix and have an ESR TRX 11 CM and an LRD Team B you can borrow for the day if interested, although both are standard stinger size.
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I have a dyno port pipe if ur interested in trying. Standard stinger
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I have A TRX11...It's an out of frame pipe but should work for what you are wanting to do.....Let me know
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I have A TRX11...It's an out of frame pipe but should work for what you are wanting to do.....Let me know
The TRX5, TRX9, TRX11 will probably fry the piston if the sphynx is trying to make more than about 55 hp on my dyno unless they have the 1 1/4 18 gage stinger and silencer.
These big bore engines need the large stinger with the larger through hole in the silencer core. Any of the 250 pipes with the 1 1/8 od 18 gage stingers and through holes in the silencer will also be two small and will also hurt a piston.
We need a selection of pipes that are big bore pipes or 250 pipes with big bore stingers and silencers.
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When I had Mat Shearer build me a 370 Sphynx a couple years back I was on the fence about what build I wanted.... Dune port on gas, or drag port on methanol. He said for the dune/gas motor I would be able to get away with a Trx-5 CM pipe, he actually complimented that pipe very well stating it's the best "off the shelf" pipe he's tested. I ended up doing a drag build and went with a shearer OOF. Just thought that was interesting.
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The TRX5, TRX9, TRX11 will probably fry the piston if the sphynx is trying to make more than about 55 hp on my dyno unless they have the 1 1/4 18 gage stinger and silencer.
These big bore engines need the large stinger with the larger through hole in the silencer core. Any of the 250 pipes with the 1 1/8 od 18 gage stingers and through holes in the silencer will also be two small and will also hurt a piston.
We need a selection of pipes that are big bore pipes or 250 pipes with big bore stingers and silencers.
Not sure what your saying here...Maybe my ESR 350 cylinder does not qualify for Big Bore Status but I have run it and run it hard for over 4 years and never had any piston problems running the TRX11 straight from ESR....It might have something to do with my complete package as the cylinder and cases were both modified...Either that or I'm just lucky????
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Not sure what your saying here...Maybe my ESR 350 cylinder does not qualify for Big Bore Status but I have run it and run it hard for over 4 years and never had any piston problems running the TRX11 straight from ESR....It might have something to do with my complete package as the cylinder and cases were both modified...Either that or I'm just lucky????
i also ran a trx11 on a 350 pro-x motor that jerry actually built for me without problem.
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Not sure what your saying here...Maybe my ESR 350 cylinder does not qualify for Big Bore Status but I have run it and run it hard for over 4 years and never had any piston problems running the TRX11 straight from ESR....It might have something to do with my complete package as the cylinder and cases were both modified...Either that or I'm just lucky????
What does the under side of your piston look like after it has 30 minutest of hard running on it? Is the whole under side of the piston shinny and jet black? Is the whole under side of the piston jet black with crust in the center or on the exhaust side of the piston? Does the crown of the piston show some minor sagging in the center or half way between the center and exhaust side of the piston? If your answer is yes to any of these you MAY have too much restriction for the current combination of stinger length, stinger, muffler inside diameter and the power your engine is developing. The flow rate of this area of the pipe depends upon how much power your engine is making.
I have had a few customers that have purchased complete ESR big bore engine kits (cylinder, head, pipe reeds, carbs, CR ignitions) and could not get a weekend of riding before the pistons failed. Some could never get 5 minutes of hard riding. Some pistons had the top of the piston caved in, some had the exhaust side burned off and others had 4 corner seizures. I bored and fitted a new piston and told them to find the problem before they ride it again because it was going to make the new piston and bore look just like the old one. Most of the guys assembled their top ends, played with the jets, installed a lower compression dome, but would continue to have the same type of piston failure. I suggested that they send the cylinder and head back to ESR so that they could look for any defects like the interference fit between the liner and aluminum casting or problems with coolant flow through the water jacked. ESR gave their stamp of approval that nothing was wrong with the cylinder kit and returned it to them.
Eventually I convinced one of the guys to they bring me his bike, let me inspect and assemble it, put it on the dyno and tune it. I made some jetting changes, timing changes, tried different types of fuel but the engine did not respond to the changes I made like they should have. I finally spent the time to hook up some sensors to the TRX 5 pipe and found that the pipe was severely over restricted. I started at the silencer and worked my way toward the pipe. I found the diameter through the bend in the stinger was collapsed approximately .100" from what looked familiar to me when my pipe bending dies need replacing. I found weld boogers inside the stinger at the junction of the stinger and the tail cone had a severe misalignment with the stinger. I made a new 1 1/8 OD 18 gage stinger with a good mandrel bend and then ran it again. I had to richen the carb up a few sizes with the new stinger to get the power optimized. The jet that now made the most power had a rich misfire when tested with the stinger/bad welds that came on the pipe. Pipe pressures were borderline high for the power the 310 cylinder was producing but the stinger replacement eliminated his continuous piston problems.
Another guy was having piston failures just like some of the other guys with the big bore ProX and ESR cylinder kits. This guy had a Pro X 330 with the TRX 11 CM. I put it on the dyno and ran it. It had tuning symptoms just like the first one that was over restricted. I instrumented the engine and pipe and check it and it was over also restricted. I found it had the same craftsmanship applied to the critical junction of the tail cone and stinger as the TRX5 pipe. After optimizing the flow through this portion of the pipe with a new 1 1/8 stinger it was still over restricted. I had to install a 1 ¼” OD stinger and new silencer. The jetting had to be richened to optimize the power like the first engine and the engine turned into an easy to tune and not one that required constant jetting attention.
The word spread fast among the group of guys that had big bore cylinder kits that were having repeated piston failures. The majority of the guys with big bore kits were using what I refer to as 250 pipes with 1 1/8 OD 18 ga stingers. I have repaired numerous pipes that had the flaw at the junction of the stinger and tail cone with good mandrel bends made of 1 1/8 18 gage tubing. The 1 1/8 OD stinger produces pipe pressures that I consider marginally high on the low HP big bores and the high HP 250s. This modification eliminated the majority of the piston failures if the guys were using good fuel and had the carbs tuned well.
On the higher HP engines I have to use 1 1/4 OD 18 ga stinger and silencer cores to get the restriction right. I use a 1 3/8 stinger and silencer core with adjustable restrictors for the big motors with a lot of power.
I have been developing tuned exhaust for two strokes for over 40 years and have seen and tested just about every possible combinations of stinger size, muffler core size and pipe restriction inserts on a wide variety of different two-stroke displacements. It takes a lot of development time (money) to get every section of the pipe working together with the right over all pipe restriction to make the widest possible power band and an easy to tune reliable engine PACKAGE. I am seeing this problem becoming wide-spread among shops that are developing products on their dyno and not using what I feel are testing procedures that will find these design errors before they are mass produced. I think that a large number of shops and manufactures are being forced to use the wrong testing procedures in their quest to be able to record and advertise dyno results that are not representative of what the engine is experiencing on the race track. It is much easier to get good over-rev by OVER RESTRICTING the pipe than spend the necessary developmental time to get the rest of the pipe dimensions where the engine wants them to be without adding the unnecessary heat to the piston crown.
I am not trying to bash any one brand of pipes. I am trying to drop some hints to those that could benefit by taking a look at their test equipment and testing procedures so that these problems will be discovered during the development of their products. By doing this I think that they will be able to better recommend specific pipes for certain cylinder kits making power within a certain power range, rather than recommend one pipe for low end, one pipe for top end and one pipe for top end on everything from a 250 to a 370 cylinder kit regardless of the power it makes.
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i also ran a trx11 on a 350 pro-x motor that jerry actually built for me without problem.
If I recall the majority of your riding is in the 6500 to 8500 foot elevation. At this altitude you engine is making about 30 % less power than it would at zero to 2000 ft elevation. This means that the pipe you have may not need the larger stinger at this high altitude and or the pipe that you have does not have the manufacturing defects that I have encounter on the engines that are having repeated piston problems.
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The pattern I see emerging with the engines with the piston overheating problems many of you are having is NOT related to some of the new cylinders water jackets and associated water flow around the exhaust ports. It is miss application of the exhaust system and or manufacturing defects on the pipes that are on the engines having repeated piston overheating problems.
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First off Jerry My hats off to you for all of your hard work.....I guess i have been lucky or I got that on "good" pipe out of hundreds.......I am thinking of sending my pipe to you for you to take a look at and mod....I would also need a new silencer if you have to enlarge the stinger correct?...Or can you mod my silencer also?....Also how much do you charge to inspect and make the mod to the pipe????
Thanks!...Jeff
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nice write up Jerry! IMO is if your 370cc motor lives with a 1-1/8 OD pipe then its probably not making the horsepower it could
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I live in mesa I have fmf fatty,Paul turner 89 race, one of jerries hand cones pipes, and esr trx5B pipes you can use. Iwas thinking of having jerry do the stinger modification to the esr pipe to help my
370.
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I live in mesa I have fmf fatty,Paul turner 89 race, one of jerries hand cones pipes, and esr trx5B pipes you can use. Iwas thinking of having jerry do the stinger modification to the esr pipe to help my
370.
What is the difference in the esr trx5b and the esr trx5??
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The b has a bigger diameter pipe after the exhaust flange it is supposed to be better for the bigger motors. I am not sure if it works better or not I just had one dune trip on the new motor.
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nice write up Jerry! IMO is if your 370cc motor lives with a 1-1/8 OD pipe then its probably not making the horsepower it could
I believe that to be very accurate statement
The majority of the commercially ported 350s that customers have brought me to tune have been under 55 hp peak. One of my good running 250s will make 50 to 55 on my dyno and needs a good flowing 1 1/8 OD stinger pipe and matching silencer.
A stock (just take it out of the box and run it) ProX 330 with one of the 250 type pipes will usually make 42 to 46 hp on my dyno. A ProX 330 on gas with the right port work, head work, V Force,and a LRD big bore pipe or HPR pipe will usually make 60 plus on my dyno.
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What is the difference in the esr trx5b and the esr trx5??
They run 10ish deg cooler. You should test them.
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10 deg cooler coolant or 10 deg. cooler exhaust temp?
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I believe that statement was based on the water but I am not positive and couldn't answer that myself. You should test the b's.
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The TRX5, TRX9, TRX11 will probably fry the piston if the sphynx is trying to make more than about 55 hp on my dyno unless they have the 1 1/4 18 gage stinger and silencer.
These big bore engines need the large stinger with the larger through hole in the silencer core. Any of the 250 pipes with the 1 1/8 od 18 gage stingers and through holes in the silencer will also be two small and will also hurt a piston.
We need a selection of pipes that are big bore pipes or 250 pipes with big bore stingers and silencers.
I'm going to revive this thread a little bit, Jerry do you think a pro-x 310 with ESR 9 porting, running a trx11 pipe would create a possibility of this overheating condition?
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We need a selection of pipes that are big bore pipes or 250 pipes with big bore stingers and silencers.
This is most interesting as all my pipes have the 1 1/4 OD stingers modified for the 400+cc motors. I have a PT type 6, ESR trx9r, ESR trx5, and the LED puma pipe or shearer inframe puma pipe were already made with the 1 1/4 OD stinger. The trx9 is my favorite at this point. Its not like a PT high rev. Its more like a ESR trx5. Getting power everywhere not just on top.
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I'm going to revive this thread a little bit, Jerry do you think a pro-x 310 with ESR 9 porting, running a trx11 pipe would create a possibility of this overheating condition?
I do not think that the 310 with ESR 9 porting will make enough power to need the 1 1/4 OD 18 gage stinger and silencer. If you start hurting pistons with that pipe and porting combination you probably have one of the pipes that was quickly and carelessly welded together.
Look inside of your head pipe and inside the start of the main pipe body for weld boogers where they had the wire feed welder turned up to hot and burned all of the way through the pipe when they were tacking the pipe together. Look at the inside of the pipe where the seams are welded together for places where they really had the heat to high and burned through leaving big boogers. If you see weld boogers in either of these two aforementioned areas, there is a very high probability that you also have boogers at the critical junction of the tail cone and stinger.
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if i have a trx5 pipe that is the original size diameter could that effect my hp and performance on my 350?? is it possible to make the diameter bigger on the stinger i have? would the porting need to change to match it?
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if i have a trx5 pipe that is the original size diameter could that effect my hp and performance on my 350?? is it possible to make the diameter bigger on the stinger i have? would the porting need to change to match it?
I did the modification in this thread, http://trx250r.org/threads/1662-Big-bore-stinger-project?highlight=bore+pipe.
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awesome thanks man