TRX250R.ORG

Workshop => Suspension and Chassis => Topic started by: Trusty2stroke on May 29, 2014, 09:15:39 PM

Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Trusty2stroke on May 29, 2014, 09:15:39 PM
So I need pads and rotors for the front brakes and I thought this would be a good time update the front end. I'm aware of all my options that are possible but wondering what are the benefits other than shedding weight and parts availability? If I swap front ends I want the 04-05 450r setup but is it worth the $200?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Burns363R on May 29, 2014, 09:20:32 PM
Do you race competitively?  If not then there's no real reason to upgrade.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Trusty2stroke on May 29, 2014, 10:27:14 PM
No I don't race at the moment but maybe in the future. Are the 450 brakes any better or about the same?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Burns363R on May 29, 2014, 10:57:48 PM
Roughly the same, maybe slightly better.  The 450 spindles are where the gains are made from a geometry stand point.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Trusty2stroke on May 29, 2014, 11:19:26 PM
I thought the 04-05 spindles were very similar geometry to the stock R spindles? In what ways do the 450r spindles help handling? I know the 06-14 are closer to the 400ex geometry and widen the front by .5" on each side.  Sorry for all the questions but I really wanna upgrade to these but there is no sense if it is not a huge difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: havinnoj on May 30, 2014, 01:17:57 AM
I do it for exactly the reasons you mentioned. But I'm a dune rider so front brakes don't rate as high on the list as other types of riding.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Trusty2stroke on May 30, 2014, 10:34:41 AM
My stock R brakes work well, but I really have to pull the lever hard. I would like to have a braking system that I don't have to put much effort trying to get the thing to stop lol. My rotors are trashed though, so that may be the reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: fearlessfred on May 30, 2014, 06:52:15 PM
I have never understood why people want to do the spindle swap thing other than for the weight savings, can anybody tell me what the changes are in geometry are.the only things that could be changed is kingpin inclination , Ackerman and  camber if you have none adjustable a arms
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: GO OVRIT on May 30, 2014, 08:24:26 PM
The first few years the 450s were out the 250 guys talked about how bad the geometry was on the 450.  Now swapping 450 parts front and rear is somewhat common.   So are these actual upgrades or or just perceived upgrades due to the parts being much newer?
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: fearlessfred on May 30, 2014, 11:38:38 PM
Quote from: GO OVRIT;35384
The first few years the 450s were out the 250 guys talked about how bad the geometry was on the 450.  Now swapping 450 parts front and rear is somewhat common.   So are these actual upgrades or or just perceived upgrades due to the parts being much newer?
I think its follow the leader,If your trying to reduce unsprung weight it makes good sense but for one  spindle to be magically better than another makes no sense.honda got it right for an oem setup.when you run shorter mx tires it becomes wrong,but that can be fixed with 4+1 rims.somebody please help the old guy understand
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: 08IRS on May 31, 2014, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: Trusty2stroke;35312
My stock R brakes work well, but I really have to pull the lever hard. I would like to have a braking system that I don't have to put much effort trying to get the thing to stop lol. My rotors are trashed though, so that may be the reason.

If you still have the stock brake lines that could be part of your stopping problem as they will flex under pressure.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Trusty2stroke on May 31, 2014, 08:58:07 AM
I have the braided stainless lines on there now. I have decided that I'm going to keep my R front end and just get new rotors and pads. Maybe in the future I will get a set of aftermarket hubs to shed some weight. Now another question lol. Are galpher or streamline rotors a big difference over stock?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: F-Red on May 31, 2014, 10:31:58 AM
I made the change out of the necessity. Calipers needed rebuilt and rotors were worn. I felt the cost of replacing and repairing the old with newer, was in the long run a better option.
You can pick up the 450r components, fairly cheap.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: fearlessfred on May 31, 2014, 11:01:48 AM
Quote from: F-Red;35407
I made the change out of the necessity. Calipers needed rebuilt and rotors were worn. I felt the cost of replacing and repairing the old with newer, was in the long run a better option.
You can pick up the 450r components, fairly cheap.
That is something I can understand,but I have to ask ,did you notice any big difference from one to another
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: F-Red on May 31, 2014, 12:10:01 PM
Honesty Fred, I didn't feel any difference. Better braking, but I suppose that could have been achieved with rebuilt original parts. I ride wide open trails, nothing to tight for turning radius.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: sdxp787 on October 09, 2014, 12:58:35 PM
I want to use the 04-05 spindle/hub upgrade on my 86R.  I am looking for performance gains as I race XC.  Is this a gain or no?  I also want to use the newer 450R brake calipers and rotors.  The 450R brake setup is so much better, in my opinion, than the 250R.  Lots of effort to pull the lever on the 250 and virtually no effort on the 450.  this is what is making me want to switch.  Any opinions?  Why arms would I use with the 450 spindles?
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: andy@maultechatv on October 10, 2014, 07:12:16 AM
How about some pictures for explanation and food for thought.  Here is a Walsh chassis with 86 spindles and hubs.  Notice how bad the bump steer is.  Now keep in mind that the chassis manufacturer and steering stem flag height also play a huge factor in this but I'm just showing you what you don't want.  The toe at full shock extension was set perfectly straight.  We did not change spindles on this bike to see if it helped out.

(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/196_3395_2017-04-18_8925.jpg)
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Tbone07 on October 10, 2014, 09:08:26 AM
Quote from: andy@maultechatv;44300
How about some pictures for explanation and food for thought.  Here is a Walsh chassis with 86 spindles and hubs.  Notice how bad the bump steer is.  Now keep in mind that the chassis manufacturer and steering stem flag height also play a huge factor in this but I'm just showing you what you don't want.  The toe at full shock extension was set perfectly straight.  We did not change spindles on this bike to see if it helped out.

(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/196_3395_2017-04-18_11.jpg)

Wow that's tells the whole story right there. What would you have done to remedy this problem Andy?

Looks like I need to take a look at this on my bike
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: andy@maultechatv on October 10, 2014, 10:18:14 AM
Quote from: Tbone07;44309
Wow that's tells the whole story right there. What would you have done to remedy this problem Andy?

Looks like I need to take a look at this on my bike


First I would change the tie rod end heights.  Then I would try a different spindle setup to see if it helped.  And if neither of those were significant enough I would change the steering stem flag height.
Title: Should I swap front ends?
Post by: Burns363R on October 10, 2014, 10:35:24 AM
Stem flag height seems to be the weak point on the R from my experience.