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Workshop => Suspension and Chassis => Topic started by: PR Crippen on July 20, 2014, 05:02:54 PM

Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 20, 2014, 05:02:54 PM
I bought this 88 frame and seller will not respond to me. I've never built a bike and I'm lost, can anyone tell me how to make this work? I've tried included pictures to try and show because it's kinda difficult for me to explain but for some reason pictures won't load right now. Does no link mean doesn't use linkage? As in shock mounts directly to swingarm? There is no bottom connecting point on this frame for oem rear shock setup, and the top shock mounting point on this frame won't give enough room for no link shock to swing up and down. I have no idea what to do now, any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much I'll try and post pics again tomorrow
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 20, 2014, 05:14:25 PM
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: ytman on July 21, 2014, 06:38:33 AM
I don't think that's a no link swingarm. The linkage mounts have definitely been cut off the frame along with some of the upper shock mount. I can't tell if the pivot position has been moved. Can you post a pic from the side?
....oh yes..definitely moved upper shock position
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 08:19:19 AM
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 21, 2014, 10:33:42 AM
Hmmmm you bought something that's been rigged.... That doesn't look like a no link to me at all...
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: havinnoj on July 21, 2014, 11:50:42 AM
A no-link does what you say - mounts directly to the swingarm.  It sounds like you've tried a no-link shock and it doesn't work with the frame nor swingarm.  So do you have a standard shock and linkage you can try?

No-Link swingarms that are about stock length typically have the shock mount a little lower.  Off-hand I'd think the swingarm is setup for a link.  

Maybe some measurements will help:
- length of swingarm
- length of front swingarm bearings/bolt hole to the shock mount
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 11:54:06 AM
Can't use standard shock, there is no mount on bottom of frame for the shock linkage. Picture number one shows bottom of frame
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
The no link shock fits perfectly to the swingarm mounting holes, just not to the top frame mount. I'm way out of my depth been saving and buying parts for 2 years and everything is just not what people advertised or just doesn't fit up. So frustrating
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: havinnoj on July 21, 2014, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: PR Crippen;39571
Can't use standard shock, there is no mount on bottom of frame for the shock linkage. Picture number one shows bottom of frame
Ah I missed that in the pic.

Quote from: PR Crippen;39573
The no link shock fits perfectly to the swingarm mounting holes, just not to the top frame mount. I'm way out of my depth been saving and buying parts for 2 years and everything is just not what people advertised or just doesn't fit up. So frustrating
Wonder if the original owner was using a different no-link shock that had different top dimensions so it wasn't hitting the top frame mount?
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 12:50:19 PM
Wish I knew, tried to get in touch with him about 10 times after I bought it to get title changed into my name. He quit responding to me, so here I am lost and clueless
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: havinnoj on July 21, 2014, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: PR Crippen;39576
Wish I knew, tried to get in touch with him about 10 times after I bought it to get title changed into my name. He quit responding to me, so here I am lost and clueless

Sorry to hear that.  Did you pay with PayPal or have any leverage to get him to respond?

Anyways - we know that the no-link shock works with the swingarm but not the top shock tower.  Since that shock tower is a custom job, any way you can grind/remove some material from that upper shock mount?  Maybe even have a shop remove it completely and refab/weld up a new upper tower - might be the easiest and most cost effective way to go.  Not too many folks run a no-link on a standard frame but it has/can be done.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 21, 2014, 02:00:54 PM
Please show us a pic of where you are mounting the shock to the swingarm. I still fail to see anywhere for a shock to mount up.

I run a no link roll swingarm, as does my 250r inspiration, and his inspiration. By no means do I know it all, but this just doesn't add up right at all. Maybe [MENTION=124]silverlake250r[/MENTION] can prove me wrong?
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: silverlake250r on July 21, 2014, 02:28:37 PM
The person that you got this from obviously modified the frame and it looks like the upper shock mount is close to position that it would be in on an aftermarket no-link style frame. The swingarm does look different than a typical Roll or LSR no-link that most people are used to, but I have seen no links with mounts really high on the swingarm like that, possibly on the early lonestars. Did you buy the shock with the frame/swingarm? Or did you get a "no-link" shock from someone else. Because most no-links are different, and all require their own custom shock.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 21, 2014, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: silverlake250r;39585
. Did you buy the shock with the frame/swingarm?.

That was my next question, the top of the shock doesn't have the built in bushings like a normal no link. Or atleast the axis no link. Mount the shock up fully and check ride height. That'll give you an idea of you're supposed to have a linkage or not. Or if you have the right shock.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 02:52:55 PM
The swingarm came with the frame, the shock is an axis I purchased seperately
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 02:54:52 PM
The very first picture shows the swingarm, I'm not at home nor have internet service at my place, will have to get picture and post when I get service
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 21, 2014, 08:34:00 PM
The swingarm total length is 20" from the bushings/pivot bolt to the holes for mounting the spring is 10.5". The axis shock measures 16" eye to eye
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 21, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
Swingarm measure center of pivot bolt hole to center of carrier hole. Same with shock, measure to the middle of both bolt holes.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: ytman on July 22, 2014, 06:48:03 AM
Check out 4wheelmx's hybrid in the hybrid section. It looks like he's got the same swingarm.His upper shock mount is much higher. You can just fab up a new mount or(I've heard) Walsh makes one. You're def gonna need a custom airbox unless you plan on going without.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 23, 2014, 08:07:13 PM
I can't mount the shock up because it's hitting top shock mount of the frame. I will re-measure from hole to hole when Iget home. And I'm going with air box eliminator if it will mount up but if it's like everything else on this frame it probably won't
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: Hawaiiysr on July 23, 2014, 09:23:47 PM
what ytman is saying is you need to cut off your upper shock mount and move it up. with no link frames the upper shock mount it higher up on the chassis.
what you have here is someone elses project. don't get discouraged! you have a lot of good parts. you just need to make it all work together. im not sure what members have no link frames but there are quite a few people on here that do. just ask for some rough measurement's. ill look for some pictures to show you as an example. I was researching modding a stock frame to run a no link set up myself but I have decided to go another route.

Walsh was a great help when I had no link questions. give them a call. very nice and helpful guys. they can fab the correct mounts you need for you to build a no link stock frame.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 23, 2014, 09:27:22 PM
Thanks for the encouragement and ur help...I'm not that mechanically inclined. So it's just a total nightmare for me
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: Hawaiiysr on July 23, 2014, 09:41:27 PM
this is not a stock frame but at the least you can see the position of the upper shock mount
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzfiawmT65M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md983amYtbI

here are a couple pictures of a no link mount on a stock frame
(http://thumbnails112.imagebam.com/34076/97740c340750024.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/97740c340750024) (http://thumbnails110.imagebam.com/34076/439660340750025.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/439660340750025)

and this is the tread that the above pictures came from
http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?365872-can-a-stock-frame-be-ran-no-link&s=&highlight=stock%20frame%20nolink

I hope this helps you
aloha
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 23, 2014, 09:48:19 PM
From that video my swingarm that came with this frame isn't a no link swingarm. So I guess my question would be with no bottom linkage mount on the frame and this top shock mounting bracket on the my frame, what setup did he have or do I need to have?? Thanks again everyone for taking ur time to help me
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 23, 2014, 10:10:18 PM
Check out this CL add, he seems to have the same swingarm as you do. Yes it is a different Chassis, but the shock mount should be the same as a stock frame. Maybe try and contact him and get some more pics.
http://bakersfield.craigslist.org/mcy/4554255032.html

To clarify, to run a no-link set up on a stock chassis, a upper shock mount relocation IS NOT always needed. I have a roll design no link with a 15.5" axis shock, and my upper shock mount is in its stock position.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: Hawaiiysr on July 23, 2014, 10:18:15 PM
ok so I re-read the tread.

from what I gather here are your options (imo)

1. no link route:
    -keep current swing arm, modify upper shock mount, and get the correct shock. something in the 17.5"-18.5" neighborhood.
2. linkage route:
     -keep your current shock, get the correct swing arm and linkage <<< both of these parts would be original type part.

I think the linkage route would be the cheapest way to get riding. are the linkage mounts still on your frame?
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: Hawaiiysr on July 23, 2014, 10:20:10 PM
@ pinned,
so if your upper shock mount is in the stock location does that mean your swing arm shock mount is in a different location?
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: Hawaiiysr on July 23, 2014, 10:24:43 PM
ohh I see no stock linkage mounts. fuk it bite the bullet and go no link. call walsh and see what they got to say.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 23, 2014, 10:39:17 PM
Quote from: Hawaiiysr;39725
@ pinned,
so if your upper shock mount is in the stock location does that mean your swing arm shock mount is in a different location?

Ill have to get a pic next time im out at my bike.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 24, 2014, 01:00:19 AM
Try looking at the pictures again maybe, I have NO bottom of frame linkage mount, and my shock mounting on top from the frame is different than factory frame mount....so I'm totally and completely lost. I SO appreciate all u guys help but I'm just completely confused, maybe just cut off top mount and measure a bottom linkage mount up and have one made and welded?? I don't know... I'm about $8000 dollars and 2 years deep now and back to square one, it's sooooo depressing. I'm just really sick and lost so much faith in people selling stuff, don't know how I can ever trust buying shit from internet anymore, u know??
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 24, 2014, 01:02:25 AM
Seriously though, thank u so much for all u guys' input and help, it really is invaluable beyond words
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: Hawaiiysr on July 24, 2014, 01:27:55 AM
Hang in there homie! Don't give up! Your so close
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 24, 2014, 06:59:37 AM
Put a post on here for an upper shock mount. Xpeople here have junk frames laying around, I can guarantee that. Then cut yours off, have the new one welded up where your axis shock mounts up right(be sure the airbox boot still fits fine) and you will be good to go man. I know it's frustrating, snags suck, but they promote learning. We're never given anything we can't overcome and that's the truth!
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: JoePA on July 24, 2014, 09:49:31 AM
I have a junk frame. What you you need? Upper and lower?
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: sameltoe on July 24, 2014, 09:54:43 AM
If your close to Des Moines,Iowa and need help with welding let me no.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 24, 2014, 10:01:11 AM
Quote from: JoePA;39754
I have a junk frame. What you you need? Upper and lower?

Bingo! What a guy!

OP if take him up on this, get the linkage mount as well as the upper mount.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: JoePA on July 24, 2014, 10:21:58 AM
I'll cut them off tonight and get them boxed up. Shoot me your address and I'll ship them out. The frame is toast so i'll cut the entire piece out so you know where it gets mounted.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 24, 2014, 10:31:53 AM
[MENTION=845]PR Crippen[/MENTION] look at that! What an awesome community we have here!
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 24, 2014, 10:48:31 AM
That's fantastic, thanks so much ! Let me know how much u want for ur time and shipping and i'll PayPal the money to u. Just pm me
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: JoePA on July 24, 2014, 11:28:33 AM
No money needed. The frame was given to me by a member to fix mine and I'm just paying it forward. PM me your addy.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: doublej on July 24, 2014, 11:47:16 AM
I have a 01 LSR that's a no-link and that swingarm looks like mine(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/648_2685_2017-04-18_9142.jpg)
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: pinned250r on July 24, 2014, 12:14:48 PM
Yep, it's an lsr no link
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 24, 2014, 12:15:33 PM
Yes, the shock mount on that swingarm is exactly like mine, but mine doesn't have the angle change that urs does, I wonder if that makes a difference
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: doublej on July 24, 2014, 12:34:57 PM
It just looks that way in the picture, its just like yours
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 24, 2014, 02:29:40 PM
Thanks for the picture, and thanks for the help everyone! Now I just need to sell my other swingarm and hubs so I can get final few parts I need haha. Anyone ????? Haha
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: ytman on July 24, 2014, 05:32:37 PM
O.k. so what's the plan? Back to stock with linkage or stock upper with no link swingarm or........?
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: PR Crippen on July 24, 2014, 05:43:52 PM
Stock upper with no link
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: rk88r on July 24, 2014, 05:48:27 PM
Will the compressed length of your shock be correct then? Measure twice and weld once.
Title: Shock/linkage/swing need help please
Post by: D Bergstrom on July 24, 2014, 06:09:04 PM
Doublej has a LSR DC-2 swingarm. I am not convinced you have one of those PR Crippen. If you compare the pics, your shock mount on the swingarm looks to be a further back compared to the pic doublej posted. (Look were the swingarms start to head up to the bearing carrier. Yours is behind that point, while doublej's is right at it.) Even if yours is a DC2, the DC2 swingarm was not designed for a stock frame, it was designed for a LSR no-link frame, the upper mount is higher compared to a stock frame on a LSR no-link frame. You may be able to get this to work, but you will probably have to purchase a new shock built to your specs, which you will need to determine based on bottomed out and extended frame heights. Even then, not sure how the geometry would work. You may be able to use the shock you have, but may need to raise the upper shock mount to work. Just some more info to think about. Remember, the compressed length of your shock is just as important as the extended length. To short of a compressed length and the frame will hit the ground, not a good thing.

Doug