TRX250R.ORG
General => Lounge => Topic started by: Anthony0327 on August 07, 2014, 03:20:33 PM
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So I've been back an forth on what I want to do motor wise. Ive read a lot of threads about so many different motor setups. Where I live there's a little bit of everything to ride, trails, sand, etc. I don't need to be the fastest guy out but want more power than what a stock 250r has to offer. I was looking into having led do my motor with the 300 sphynx. Is there anyone on here that has this setup? Just want some opinions and reviews if possible. I want something reliable with power that's fast. Chances are I will only do a build like this once so I want to make sure I get something that impresses and of course is reliable. Thanks in advance for your replies.
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I'm also in the market for a new cylinder and am interested in feedback on the Sphynx 300. From my own research I understand that the Sphynx cylinder is the best out there (it has a modern port layout and a Nikasil bore) but it is also the most expensive by far. To save money--nearly $900--I've considered going with a Pro-X 330. I'm pretty sure a Sphynx 300 will out-perform a Pro-X 310 but not a Pro-X 330. Another possibility is the Sphynx 350 but then you will have to bore the cases. Normally I would get the 350 but I'm putting it in my 86 ATC and I don't think my Paul Turner pipe will handle the displacement, and I'd rather not have to buy a new pipe too.
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There is no replacement for displacement. Sure a 300 will run nice but if you want to do this build 1 time and leave it for a long time you should think about doing something a little bigger maybe with a 4 mil stroker if you are going to be having your engine cases apart. There are many reliable options out there if the install is done correct.
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It mostly depends on how much money you have, and how much power you want to make
If you want to cut costs and still go to a big bore you could always have your builder of choice use an ESR cylinder
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i would call and talk arlan if that his who you are going to use to build, see which route is the most cost effective for the application you need, there are an infinite amount of motor combos. if you want to go budget route with bolt ons so you dont have to split cases but still get the most bang for your buck, send arlan a esr 330 bolt on builder kit and have him set it up for you, i would think your pipe would be ok without needing to go to a big bore pipe. also the new esr cylinders have a new port layout and are much better than previous versions. only downside is since it doesnt require case boring you get a couple less overbores due to the thinner sleeve.
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I do the same exact riding and I talked to Arlan about the exact same thing and he suggested to get the ESR 310 builder and send it to him to do the work. He said the shynx is about $700 more I believe.
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you cant go wrong with what Arlan suggests, but if you decide to go with a sphynx, I suggest you go with a ESR piston.
The CP pistons, or at least the ones with a 78mm bore do not have the ring ends in the correct location and in both sphynx I have built the rings are prematurely wearing as I expected. Arlan told me he has not had issues with this but like me does not like there location. But ask Arlan about this because possiably the smaller bores are OK. I complained to CP about the location and was told they would order 78 bore pistons just for the sphynx, the problem came from the fact that the 78mm puma works perfect with them because of the port layout but on the sphynx the ring ends pass over the open rear transfer ports.
To run a ESR piston you have to run a 3mm spacer plate and extra gasket which always sucks but its worth it to fix the ring end problem until CP gets the new batch of pistons made.
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i dont meen to cut in but does any the cp jugs use 89mm piston ?
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Op I believe the the 300 sphinx needs the cases bored also.
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.........................Normally I would get the 350 but I'm putting it in my 86 ATC and I don't think my Paul Turner pipe will handle the displacement, and I'd rather not have to buy a new pipe too.
The displacement is not the only thing that determines what pipe will work best with the big bore cylinders. The Paul turner pipes are made for OEM 250 Honda cylinders that have a much different port layout than the Pro-X, ESR and Sphynx cylinders. All three of these manufactures have totally different port tunnels, different shaped ports and port timings.
There are different pipes that are best suited for each of these different brands and sizes of cylinders. The unfortunate thing is there is not much of a selection of pipes for the ATC 250R. Your Paul Turner pipe is not a good choice for the 330 and 350 cylinders. If the 300 or 310 is built to make some serious power and you are not using it exclusively for drag racing, the Paul Turner pipe may cause piston overheating problems.
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i dont meen to cut in but does any the cp jugs use 89mm piston ?
Only mine, the Sphinx was designed to run a 78mm piston. I'm not sure under bores like 72mm are available. Puma is designed to use the 85mm piston and the Saber A 95mm piston. We went to advanced sleeve and had them make an 89mm sleeve for the 95mm bore of the Saber
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give me some details. is it a cr5 piston or something special ?
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give me some details. is it a cr5 piston or something special ?
The builder says thats :topsecret: BDT does not have a clue and were all gonna keep it that way.
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didnt you say you had yz490 rod ?
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dont want none of your secrets. just looking for a alternative cr5 piston with 20mm pin. wasnt sure if there was something out there or not
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Op I believe the the 300 sphinx needs the cases bored also.
I was going to say the same thing.
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If the 300 or 310 is built to make some serious power and you are not using it exclusively for drag racing, the Paul Turner pipe may cause piston overheating problems.
I'm wondering why you say this? Is the Turner pipe only for drag racing? Would ESR's ATC5 pipe be better for the port layout of a Pro-X 330 or Sphynx 350?
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I think he meant drag racing is a short period of time and doesn't hold the heat on the piston long enough for the failure he's referring to. The stinger size becomes a restriction at a certain power level. I don't know how to post a link, but read Bowtie316 thread about a big bore pipe project. Especially read Jerry's comment's.
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I appreciate the feedback all. I just want an all around build. I don't want to sacrifice bottom end for top. Something that has low end grunt with plenty of mid and some top end. From the beginning I was looking at esr but as I was doing research and found led. Done right I heard all the kits run well. I have heard good thing about all the builders. I think I've made my decision. I'm going to go with esr. I have spoke to Eddy over there and he's a hell of a guy. Took the time to explain everything and make sure I understood it all. I'm pretty much brand new to the 250r world but not to two strokes. I haven't even ridden my 86 trx bike yet. I bought it pulled it apart and started fresh. It was in such bad shape I wanted to go through everything to make sure it is all done rite. There's so much aftermarket out there it's hard to make a decision but now I'm going to stick with it. If cases have to be machined I might as well go with a330-350cc. I think I'm going to stay with a stock stroke 87-89 crank and rod since I already had my crank rebuilt and ready to go. I bet one of those will make decent power, have speed and for the price you can't beat it. Plus the customer service is huge to me. Maybe I'll do a sphynx on my next build with my 88. Again thank you all for the replies.
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I am running the 300 sphinx that Arlen put together. It was bored up 1mm when it was new with a dune port, 38mm carb. I haven't had a chance to try a different pipe yet as I am running a DG but I think I may try an ESR5 for the hell of it. As far as power goes I was at dunefest last weekend and was able to match up against a lot of 450's and a few banshee's. I ran through 2nd so quick that I ended up revving it in 3rd and hitting 4th with no decrease in power on any hill. I had to let up a lot of the time, but that's just me. Seems like the older you get ( 60 ) speed is not so relative anymore. Anyway hope that helps. I run race gas at over 10 bucks a gal. so that is a consideration too when you get into the higher comps. I have a stock bike also and the difference is very pronounced. My cases were not bored
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I have ran led/led for a long time. My current is a 340PV. Just bought a back up bike and it has ESR motor/pipe combo. The guy I bought it from stated it was also a 350pv. I haven't pulled it down to verify the displacement. I plan on pulling it down this weekend
That being said, the LED is by far superior. All the way through the power band the LED pulls stronger and pulls more RPM.
I'll update when I pull it down to verify its displacement to make sure I am comparing similar displacements.
Best regards
-Jason
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If going with ESR, sticking with stock stroke crank is a good idea. Those cylinders are cast for stock stroke and are hard to set up for any low-mid power if you use a stroker crank.
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I appreciate the feedback all. I just want an all around build. I don't want to sacrifice bottom end for top. Something that has low end grunt with plenty of mid and some top end. From the beginning I was looking at esr but as I was doing research and found led. Done right I heard all the kits run well. I have heard good thing about all the builders. I think I've made my decision. I'm going to go with esr. I have spoke to Eddy over there and he's a hell of a guy. Took the time to explain everything and make sure I understood it all. I'm pretty much brand new to the 250r world but not to two strokes. I haven't even ridden my 86 trx bike yet. I bought it pulled it apart and started fresh. It was in such bad shape I wanted to go through everything to make sure it is all done rite. There's so much aftermarket out there it's hard to make a decision but now I'm going to stick with it. If cases have to be machined I might as well go with a330-350cc. I think I'm going to stay with a stock stroke 87-89 crank and rod since I already had my crank rebuilt and ready to go. I bet one of those will make decent power, have speed and for the price you can't beat it. Plus the customer service is huge to me. Maybe I'll do a sphynx on my next build with my 88. Again thank you all for the replies.
That sounds like a good plan. My 350 has plenty of top and bottom, even for a 240lb rider.
Remember if you'd like better porting....you can get the ESR "engine builder" cylinder (unported), and have it sent out to you builder of choice for further porting
Either way you can't go wrong with the cost savings of ESR, quality kits as well.
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Or like Eddy probably explained to you, he can do the better porting on the package. Not just the clean up job that it comes with. What is it $100 more or something. I have ridden with several ESR bikes and they run very well. I think with my play bike I am going to do some kind of ESR setup.
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My esr with the added eddie port ran very well. You will be good to go.
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Another thing to think about, and it's what I am currently doing, is to just get the ESR trx7 port match and ride it for a while. That way, when you send it to LED or Neil or whoever, you have some feedback instead of just a guess on what you want them to do. If you like the power delivery of the motor, then it would just be widening up the ports and what not for flow, if it doesn't rev out enough, they could take the port timing up a little as well.
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If you start with a trx7 and then have it opened up is why some people say gee this is better then the esr port that I got. A lot of people make a compression change at this point as well. Go trx9 and be simular to what the others will do and you dont need to pay them 400 or whatever more to do it. If you go 7 you need to know what you are going for and not be truely in your heart wanting more. That is not what it is for. I believe over half of the people that think they want 7 really deep inside desire 9. That does not mean that after a 30 min to 1 hour race/ride that the stopwatch would match the smile but it is what thay may want.
I see what bowtie is saying as far as walking to where you want to be but I am talking about a lot of the judging that goes on with a starting point of 7.
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If you start with a trx7 and then have it opened up is why some people say gee this is better then the esr port that I got. A lot of people make a compression change at this point as well. Go trx9 and be simular to what the others will do and you dont need to pay them 400 or whatever more to do it. If you go 7 you need to know what you are going for and not be truely in your heart wanting more. That is not what it is for. I believe over half of the people that think they want 7 really deep inside desire 9. That does not mean that after a 30 min to 1 hour race/ride that the stopwatch would match the smile but it is what thay may want.
I see what bowtie is saying as far as walking to where you want to be but I am talking about a lot of the judging that goes on with a starting point of 7.
I agree, it's certainly not going to run as well with just the trx7 port match. My only comment is that my buddy has the trx9 and for me it leaves something to be desired on the bottom end. I want something that I can ride without revving as much. TRX7 is a safe bet in that it can still be ported out later, to get it right where I want it.
Maybe the 330 trx9 makes enough more low end than the 310 trx9 that it doesn't really matter, but I would rather play it safe on port timing and bring it up slowly.
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Forgot to mention I will be running a 01cr250 ignition. Don't know if that will make a huge difference on what I'm going to have done but it's what I have. My stator and mag where so rusted it would have costed more to have it rewound then buy the cr ignition. You all have been very helpful. I'm a member on the other forum also and never get this many responses. Grant it there are "some" great guys there but there also is a lot of bickering n calling out over there. These where the responses I was looking for. People that actually have and ride these different products. Great website by the way. Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I will have some more questions as I start to put everything back together. I'm about a month away. Just need a few more parts and I'm there.
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And that is where a power valve could become a big factor as well for you to bridge bowtie. Maybe you should start with a power valve ready bowtie if not a power valve from the get go. For like 20.00 the power valve ready leaves a door open for options and I agree as well that the cc factor will come into play with the port setup that will work for someones needs and desires for sure. I was chatting about the added port work as well above not just the sleave installation touchups.
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Yes anthony a wider variety of options can get talked about more on here.
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I like hearing all the different replies, without having BS thrown in too. Welcome to the site Anthony.
Personally, I'd rather build what I want the first time, but when you're unsure of what you want, then that's when hearing everyone's experiences becomes invaluable.
Good luck with whatever route you choose. My next built motor will not be the stock jug screamer I have now. It works great for the supermoto it was built for tho.
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I have a esr 310 with a trx 9 port. When I bought my bike it was not even close to some of my previous 250 builds. It also ran the trx 9 pipe. I tried to jet out the lack of bottom but it was cleaely not there to be found. I had a new dome cut which tightened things up on top. It previously had a pump dome. I also switched to a low/mid exhaust. These changes transformed the bike. I am by no means saying its the best out there. But I have had a lot of great builds and this one is impressive for the minimal amount of cash I have invested.