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General => Lounge => Topic started by: atvmxr on December 05, 2014, 09:29:13 PM
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I know waaaay off topic, but I'm really struggling with this. As a kid I was wild, impulsive, out of control, pretty smart, etc and by all accounts thus far my 7 year old son is like his old man. But in this day and age that rebel spirit and curiosity are unacceptable in school, plus my wife is a teacher. So on all fronts I'm getting pressed to put my son on adhd meds, and in my mind - aka meth, meth amphetamines, coke, etc
I'm super extremely concerned about putting such a young and smart boy on mind altering and highly addictive drugs just for the sake of essentially sitting still and being quiet.
I have lots of examples of friends from high school and even my wife's own brother being fd up on these drugs, but I might as well be talking to a wall. "Better living through chemistry ".
Any advice???
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don't do it .it seams that the first choice with the schools now...make the teachers put the time in to do there job!!!
but that also means you have to put more time into your child also..
it will take more work on your part also, don't take short cuts with you kids,
they told me my son needed them also, no he didn't!!!! he just needed more help then other kids, so I gave him the help, and he turned out just fine without taking the shortcut.
if you cant tell Im very against it in most cases ...only a select few absolutely need these drugs... and from the sound of your son is one that just needs guidance and help and support not drugs
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Do realize that whats an upper for anyone else is a downer for hyperactive children like your son. He won't be getting high off of them. It will just settle him down to an acceptable level. When my son was thought to have ADHD. I my self knew he was just using selective listening. He could play video games for hours straight. But when it came to something he did not want to learn about/pay attention to the tables all turned. I did not let them use anything on him. My daughter takes amphetamine everyday to keep her from being out of control. When she is acting up I know she did not take her pill that day. The good news is that it may just pass in time.
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That's a tough decision. I have a friend that says the meds helped him. I also have a nephew who was hyper-active. His parents worked the shit out of him and he has grown up to be very successful. I believe that many successful people were hyper kids.
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Do realize that whats an upper for anyone else is a downer for hyperactive children like your son. He won't be getting high off of them. It will just settle him down to an acceptable level. When my son was thought to have ADHD. I my self knew he was just using selective listening. He could play video games for hours straight. But when it came to something he did not want to learn about/pay attention to the tables all turned. I did not let them use anything on him. My daughter takes amphetamine everyday to keep her from being out of control. When she is acting up I know she did not take her pill that day. The good news is that it may just pass in time.
Puma, that's the most insane part of the diagnosis. One minute it's that he can't focus, then when they do focus for awhile its called adhd hyper focus and they need meds to stop being so in focus....
I'm probably going to get divorced over this. No bs
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what do you mean in your mind they are? that is exactly molecularly what they are, amphetmines, period. I am lucky, and feel very grateful that my mother refused to put me on said pharmaceuticals, however I didnt feel that way when I was younger. I was always very self aware and self analytical when I was younger, and I always theorized why I couldnt, and didnt want to do any of my school work, I always brought this to my moms attention and that there was friends who had these, and she refused to get them for me. I had resentment until I got older and realized the reason I didnt want to do the work was the majority of it I could careless about, but could spend endless hours on my kv75 and atc90, spends endless hours building models, and endless hours with woodworking. and just because a kid isnt interested in a certain subject does not mean that child needs medicated. children should not have highly addictive and damaging pharmaceuticals forced upon their developing minds. do whats best for your childs development, not whats best for the pharmaceutical companies. Everyone is who they are, it just takes caring responsible parents to lead the way, not just throw a "fda approved' chemical that is NOT safe, no matter how much they say it is, at them.
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Personally I dislike pharmaceutical drugs of any kind. I don't even like taking aspirin. The companies that make prescription drugs know that they have various & many side affects which allows them to make even more drugs to counteract those side affects which creates even more side affects. It turns into a huge snowball & lines their pockets with billions of dollars. In reality though I know that some pharmaceutical drugs are necessary, but most medical doctors follow the pill for every ill mentality & it's so much easier for them to just throw drugs at every problem instead of figuring out what the root cause is. Besides, a lot of medical doctors get kick backs from drug companies to push their products. Hopefully you can find an alternative to amphetamines for your son. Heres a link for herbal remedies to ADHD that I found if your interested in going that route instead. At the very least if you try an herbal remedy there won't be major side affects like there is from drugs which is better health wise for your young boys growing body & mind.http://www.naturalnews.com/026081_adhd_herbal_remedies.html#
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Mu son was thought to have ADHD and the school wanted to put him on meds....My dad, a teacher for 44 years, thank God stepped in and said No...My kid was way out of control....A lot of it turned out to be abandonment issues as I raised him by myself from 6 months old on.......By 5th grade he started to calm down.....I am no scientist but I started him riding at age 4 and also started him racing.....IMO it helped him to take his aggression out on the track and it also became a tool in which to calm him down by threatening to not let him race..I also got him interested in football so when he wasn't racing he was playing football..Some kids are more hyperactive than others and need a way to let off steam..This day and age electronics don't let them do that.....I'm not saying racing will work....I am not an expert...I just know this is what worked for me and my son...
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My son has ADHD. We tried everything to not put him on medication. He kept being taken out of class to a different class because of his hyperactivity. He wasn't punished because they recognized the problem but he couldn't be distracting the other kids. He honestley could not focus and it was not fair to him at school or at home to continually get in trouble over something he could not control. we tried herbs and different medication. Most of the meds he wouldn't eat and when it wore off he would have mood swings and couldnt sleep. We finally went to a doctor that had us try a patch. This thing is absolutely perfect. Now he eats, sleeps, and acts like a normal kid.
He is 10 and I can tell he will grow out of it. We don't give him any medication during summer, and for the most part when is not around too many kids like a classroom, he does really well.
I am with you guys about not putting him meds, but I thought it is unfair to him to consistently get in trouble.
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Whichever way you decide to go, do realize how much a divorce can effect him. Instead of you guys compromising and coming up with a reasonable plan that you both at least partially agree with, he'll be treated 2 different ways depending on who he's with. Good luck man!
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I can tell you that food MAJORLY effects behavior in hyperactive kids. Mcdonald's chicken nuggets will keep my son bouncing off the walls the next day after he eats them. So no nuggets. Real chicken from sonic does not affect him at all. Food coloring, especially red, will have him going crazy so we have completely got him away from any kind of colored drinks and candy.
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i was and AM alot like you and your son. Growing up i was the one who talked non-stop through class, never listened, yet still pulled A's and B's all day, with the occasional C. I had teachers tell my mom "he's just a bad kid with no respect!" and others say "he could be the smartest kid in the class, but he is bored and doesnt listen. A "repeat" button would serve him very well!" We battled this until i was half way through sixth grade when a teacher made the recommendation to my Mom. Unlike most parents, she wasn't offended, but thankful. I started taking the meds, trying so many different kinds, some made me not eat all(like literally half a pb&j per day), some made me crap my brains out daily, some gave me headaches, but we eventually found the one that worked great for me, Concerta. I took it then all through high school and did great. By no means was i "perfect" i still acted up and talked alot, but i retained info and was able to sit through class while pulling A's.
Fast forward to college, i tried stopping the meds. I could notice and instant drop in my attention span. I could listen to a teach for maybe 3 minutes before i tuned out. At this point in my life, talking in class wasnt a problem, but focusing was still an issue as it always had been. So i took it for a couple years in college until my pride got the best of me and i decided i didnt want it anymore. now ive been out of school 2 years, and still notice myself not being focused often, i know hands down the meds would help.
So all in all, i'd say this. Dont be afraid of the meds. The side effects are minimal and very short term. Nothing your kid wont realize and tell you instantly. The "addiction" part we hear about in the news is flawed. You cant get "addicted" to a med that you NEED. Do not let pride or rumors get the best of you. For every 1 bad story you hear about these meds, theres 20 good ones you dont know about. There are many professionals in the business world who take these meds. They arent a bad drug, they have the same mental effects of an energy drink on a tired worker, without the sugar and crap for your body. I believe in these drugs and the good they can bring.
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Working in a hospital this is a hot subject even for the doctors. Some say its needed some say its way over diagnosed. If you end up getting to the point, talk to a doc, then another, and a 3rd one after that before making your decision. Get several opinions because not all doctors think the same. I tend to agree with DNB, when I have kids if it can be avoided they wont be on medications. (I'm not a Dr. I just work with them)
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I think some can be controlled through activity and discipline some not. I also believe that some parents take the easy way out and just give their kids meds to avoid dealing with it.
You will have to find your own way. I have heard of people taking their kids out first thing in the morning for run to burn off some energy.
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I have heard of people taking their kids out first thing in the morning for run to burn off some energy.
Good point but its a lot of work. When my daughter does not have her meth we substitute coffee in the morning. Calms her down to an acceptable level. Problems these kids have in school is their mind gets bored quickly. They can do the work easily but would just rather do something interesting. The daughter is a wizard with #'s but gets the answer wrong because her numbers start traveling into the other columns. When shes not on the meth she acts like 10 second Tom. Not saying it is for all kids but some are so smart they bore quickly and cannot focus. She is not addicted to meth and really does not care if she takes her pill or not. When I catch her acting up I ask if she took her pill that day. The answer always the same, no! She has 2 a day, one morning and one evening. They have different strengths. When she started taking them they did not seem to effect her focus. The doctor had to double the strength which works well now. Without the meth she would get C's-F's for grades. Now she is getting all A's and B's
P.S. The meth the doctor gives is no where close to what is available potency wise on the black market!
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there are some vitamins or natural supplement things that are supposed to help without using prescription drugs. I would definately look into that and avoid prescriptions if possible.
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The "addiction" part we hear about in the news is flawed. You cant get "addicted" to a med that you NEED.
Not sure where u are getting your information, but the idea that someone NEEDS a chemical is merely an opinion, no matter if it is a professional opinion or not, it is still opinion, and bares no revelance on its addictiveness. If that were the case when a doctor told you NEED an opiate painkiller to relieve severe pain no other painkiller can relieve, you wouldnt get addicted to it bc u need it. U should do some more research on the pharmaceutical industry.
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Absolutely do not do it. Your young son is doing exactly what a young boy is supposed to do. There isn't a young boy on the planet who loves math, english, and social studies at that age.
My pediatrician told this to my mother when she asked about adhd when i was young......."he doesn't have adhd, he just isn't completely interested in the topics being put in front of him"
I could concentrate on quads, dirtbikes, hunting, computers, and other hobbies all day long. You need to find out what your son is interested in and loves to do. Then let him go at it.
Low and behold my pediatrician was right.....I had to find something I loved to do and was 100% interested in, in order to devote full attention to it.
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i was and AM alot like you and your son. Growing up i was the one who talked non-stop through class, never listened, yet still pulled A's and B's all day, with the occasional C. I had teachers tell my mom "he's just a bad kid with no respect!" and others say "he could be the smartest kid in the class, but he is bored and doesnt listen. A "repeat" button would serve him very well!" We battled this until i was half way through sixth grade when a teacher made the recommendation to my Mom. Unlike most parents, she wasn't offended, but thankful. I started taking the meds, trying so many different kinds, some made me not eat all(like literally half a pb&j per day), some made me crap my brains out daily, some gave me headaches, but we eventually found the one that worked great for me, Concerta. I took it then all through high school and did great. By no means was i "perfect" i still acted up and talked alot, but i retained info and was able to sit through class while pulling A's.
Fast forward to college, i tried stopping the meds. I could notice and instant drop in my attention span. I could listen to a teach for maybe 3 minutes before i tuned out. At this point in my life, talking in class wasnt a problem, but focusing was still an issue as it always had been. So i took it for a couple years in college until my pride got the best of me and i decided i didnt want it anymore. now ive been out of school 2 years, and still notice myself not being focused often, i know hands down the meds would help.
So all in all, i'd say this. Dont be afraid of the meds. The side effects are minimal and very short term. Nothing your kid wont realize and tell you instantly. The "addiction" part we hear about in the news is flawed. You cant get "addicted" to a med that you NEED. Do not let pride or rumors get the best of you. For every 1 bad story you hear about these meds, theres 20 good ones you dont know about. There are many professionals in the business world who take these meds. They arent a bad drug, they have the same mental effects of an energy drink on a tired worker, without the sugar and crap for your body. I believe in these drugs and the good they can bring.
I've taken adderall before in college (didn't have a prescription), and I noticed the benefits you are talking about.
But the root of the cause wasn't that I had ADHD, it's that I always had trouble concentrating on things I didn't give a damn about. Like english, humanities classes etc....
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Not sure where u are getting your information, but the idea that someone NEEDS a chemical is merely an opinion, no matter if it is a professional opinion or not, it is still opinion, and bares no revelance on its addictiveness.
Jesse, you are right. A doctor recommends chemo to a leukemia patient in hopes it cures them. The patient does not need it, but it is a helpful tool in surviving. Add or adhd meds are not "needed," but rather helpful tools for students to get through the school/work day, and do so with more success. Your argument is invalid. But please, try again to explain to the world how something you've never used or experienced(for the intended reasons, not just to get high or stay up all night for fun), is bad for them. Ill be over here with the experience and knowledge.
To everyone elses comments. These meds are for exactly what you're saying. To help you focus on the things you need to, but dont really care too. I hated science and SS, but they're needed for a diploma. I hate having to do continued ed classes for my insurance licenses, and if i cared to hear them and pay attention, id probably need something to help me pay attention. Unfortunately in the real world, you cant just "find out what your son is interested in and loves to do. Then let him go do it." At somepoint in life from now until college, he will need to to focus on something other than that. If i could get away with doing what i love all day everyday, i'd be in bed with my wife 16hrs, riding 8 hrs, sleeping zero, because i hate sleeping.
I agree with seeing multiple doctors, getting multiple opinions absolutely, but dont be so closed off to the idea, and definitely dont get a divorce over it. It doesnt make you "a tough guy" by being anti adhd meds.
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exactly, that is what they are, helpful tools. necessary tools? once again completely opinion, and in this culture a valid one due to the throw a pill at it to fix it mindstate that the pharmaceutical industries advertising has created. they made 11 Billion dollars last year and for every dollar they made, they spent 13 on advertising. this creates this mentality. if u think they have ur best interests in mind think again.
I have no idea what relevance the chemo comment has as a reply to my comment. @.@ I was comparing the addictiveness, of which they are similar. first u say amphetamines arent addictive then ur next post u explain ur yearning for them bc u dont want to pay attention to ur insurance lecture. if that works for u great, but dont fool yourself thinking highly addictive lab chemicals arent addictive just bc a dr said u need these to pay attention.
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I understand the thought of meds to fix kids that are just "busy" are unnecessary. I do also agree that many kids are put on this stuff that don't need to be. BUT, there are legitimate problems with children that do need this to have a good quality of life. My mom and sister believe that the school made us put my son on medication, which is completely untrue. I have lived with him his entire life and legitimately tried everything. He did not have a good quality of life. He was in trouble more than not.
I invite anybody to come stay with us for a week and see first hand what it is like and prove to me he does not need it. Then I will show you what Mcdonald's chicken nuggets and red food coloring will do to him.
My son has on medication for four years and he is not addicted. He did have some withdrawls likes headaches for a few days when we take him off of it for the summer. We finally found a patch (Daytrana) that helps him and doesn't have any the side effects (that we know of) of the meds he has taken in the past.
Those of you that have a closed mind and have not had to deal with dont understand.
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The Dr.'s need to do better health checks before prescribing these drugs to kids and using them as lab rats to "see if this one works" Research some of the bad side effects that could be possible because the dr.'s do not know for sure what will work and will not. For example I took my son to the dr. to ask him why they havent done blood tests and ask about family history when they prescibed him Ritalin. It was just given (at the time) a Black Box warning label because the side effects could be fatal. He told me "well hes been on it for a couple years now so if there were going to be any problems you would have had them by now." "Its stood the test of time" he told me since its been in use since the mid 70's. (My son was given Adderall at 8 years old, then Concerta at 9 , and then at 9 given Ritalin) I then took my son (at 11 years old) off of Ritalin because I read other horror stories of kids having siezures with irr-reversable damage and I was not willing to take that chance. Took the sugar away in the morning.. Put him on a Whey protien shake for breakfast, no sugar lunch, and the change was incredible. Teachers litteraly called me asking me what I did because he had been off the meds for about 6 months before I discovered this Un-medicated way of taking care of the issue. Needless to say it wasnt easy keeping him off the meds for that 6 months but I was stubborn and determined to beat it another way. Diet has so much to do with how our body and mind act. Just like the air/fuel/oil mixture in our 2 strokes. If you feed it the right combination it will run right.... same as our body.
My suggestion is to give some diet changes a try before running out and quickly medicating. There is something in the diet that causes these kids to be this way I am completely convinced of this due to my own experience with my son. He is now 23, married with a son of his own and is working in the medical field and I couldnt be prouder of him. Im not against the drugs as a last resort but as parents we need exert the energy to find better solutions than just handing pills down to them. So rarely were these drugs prescribed when I was a kid and now it seems 1 in 8 are on drugs..Its a shame.
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Don't do it !!!!
I took those drugs aswill as a kid
I had ADD and the "doctors" thought if I took some meds to help me focus I would be ok
Nope I ended up zoning out harder and loosing time
I was basically stoned all the time
Luckily my mom and dad pulled me off it
I eventually grew out of my ADD
But I still catch myself zoning out a little lol
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Wow, it is interesting to me how many have chimed in on this subject. My son just turned 8 and is repeating second grade. We made the choice to hold him back due to sub-par reading skills. Last year we discovered that my son was near sighted and couldn't see what was going on in front of the class. We got him glasses but it was too late for him to catch up. We had started him in school early so he is actually with kids his age now. This year he has become disruptive in class. Several people have suggested ADHD and that we need to get him tested. My theory is that A. He's bored because he learned most of this last year. and B. He isn't interested in learning normal stuff. This is a kid that has a vocabulary of a high school kid and understands how to use large complex words in the correct context but refuses to read. He is addicted to MineCraft and has constructed complete cities. He can skin the hair off a gnat's a$$ with a twenty two even after I intentionally F'd up the scope settings. I see a lot of myself in him. I grew up as the smart kid "nerd". I was such a nerd that I scored perfect scores on the State tests and had to retake them because they thought I cheated. My wife is on the ADHD bandwagon but I see him doing the exact same things as I did. I'm against chemical education but the school has a very very low tolerance for misbehavior. His teacher has been teaching since Abraham Lincoln was president and after meeting her at back to school night I was thoroughly surprised at her lack of preparedness. But let's blame it on the kids and say they have ADHD.
Great topic. At least I don't feel like I'm the only one with modern child development questions.
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I have hesitated to comment on this thread but decided to do so. My opinion on any kind of mind alternating drug is not a very good idea. I am very against alot of Rx medicines unless absolutely necessary. Rx medications for ADHD or ADD have been abused and caused issues with students before. I know this because I was a opioid addict for 7 years and the addiction started with drugs such as these. I am now thankfully clean since December 11 2012. This is just a caution to warn you of the problems that can come from Rx medicines. Be very careful and please make wise decisions on this matter.
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That's some tough stuff man. Gotta keep the family together, that's probably the best medicine for the child. What sucks is that the school pushes that chit because it is the easy route. It is easier to have a docile child in their class than actually address what is wrong in the situation. I'm not hating on teachers necessarily, it is just a fact that they are BUSY and sometimes they view some children and problems instead of working with the child. I had the same problem when I was a kid and my mom refused. They ended up putting me in advanced classes with alot of homework. It turned out that I didn't have a problem, I was just bored. You don't know me from a oil stain on the ground and I don't know you or your situation but i would look at all your options before you do the meds. I had to take Kepra( an anti-convulsant) for a little while and I was a moody little b**ch until I was off of that. I am still on a anti-convulsant (good ol' concussions) but we had to try a few till we got one that didn't turn me into Joe Pesci in that Snickers commercial lol. Make sure you trust your doctor because that will dictate whether he will be your advocate by looking for the best outcome for you and your family or will simply try to perscribe you something because he has a tee time to keep. Just my opinion. Best of luck to you and your family.
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That's a tough decision. I have a friend that says the meds helped him. I also have a nephew who was hyper-active. His parents worked the shit out of him and he has grown up to be very successful. I believe that many successful people were hyper kids.
The majority of the exceptional leaders our country and businesses have had would have been diagnoses as having ADD if the pharmaceuticals had a drug to sell back then. I had the problem when I was young but my parents, and teachers gave me the necessary attention and A LOT OF EXTRA DISCIPLINE that it took to corral my extra energy and showed me how to focus this energy on something constructive. They put in a lot more time than they signed up for when they became parents and teachers.
I had a few friends that had the same problem but not as bad as mine. Their parents were apparently to busy to be parents and did not discipline them as heavily as my parents did me. Most of these friends are dead, alcoholics or have spent the majority of their lives in and out our prison.
God designed your child and chose you to raise him. God did not design him to have his personality changed by drugs. You were chosen to be his parent so that he be moulded by you for his intended purpose. Please do not become another parent to give your child the drugs to make parenting easier. Take the extra time now and do whatever it takes like my parents did for me, even it requires you to give up your toys. I hope that many years from now you will have the joy of being the proud parents of a child that has become a parent that is as good as his parents.
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Here is an excellent explanation of what it is like to truly have ADHD
http://m.tickld.com/x/if-your-friends-ever-say-they-have-adhd-just-show-them-this
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Wow, it is interesting to me how many have chimed in on this subject.... But let's blame it on the kids and say they have ADHD.
Great topic. At least I don't feel like I'm the only one with modern child development questions.
In second grade my sons teacher asked me to come in for a parent teacher meeting (single dad). She suggested Anthony had ADHD. She was saying he's just not normal. When asked what the 4 seasons were his response was soccer, football, hunting and fishing seasons. I guess all the other kids said spring, summer, winter and fall.
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In second grade my sons teacher asked me to come in for a parent teacher meeting (single dad). She suggested Anthony had ADHD. She was saying he's just not normal. When asked what the 4 seasons were his response was soccer, football, hunting and fishing seasons. I guess all the other kids said spring, summer, winter and fall.
LMAO !!!!
That sounds exactly like something my boy would come up with.
If you ask my second grader what to do if a stranger is breaking into your house...... His response is go get the gun and shoot their @$$. Apparently the correct response was call 911.
My kid keeps getting caught retaliating. After I grew up getting picked on, I have encouraged him to defend himself.... well that is frowned upon in today's society. A forth grader pushed my second grader down... so he got up and choked out the 4th grader.... The school wasn't very happy. I was so proud that day.
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LMAO !!!!
That sounds exactly like something my boy would come up with.
If you ask my second grader what to do if a stranger is breaking into your house...... His response is go get the gun and shoot their @$$. Apparently the correct response was call 911.
My kid keeps getting caught retaliating. After I grew up getting picked on, I have encouraged him to defend himself.... well that is frowned upon in today's society. A forth grader pushed my second grader down... so he got up and choked out the 4th grader.... The school wasn't very happy. I was so proud that day.
My dad told me in 3rd grade that if the bullies don't stop after you ask them 3 times, nicely. Punch them in the face as hard as you can until they stop. I didn't get caught by the school but I sure as hell never got bullied again lol.
....It's all about what they're interested in. I couldn't pay attention in English class when I was younger, but put me in a room with all the Lego's in the world and you wouldn't see me for a week, even for dinner.
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I have been a pharmacist for over 10 years (doesn't mean much) but here is what I have seen over the years and just my .02 cents. First thing, I hate dispensing ADD or ADHD drugs to kids to begin with. Almost every prescription has one thing in common, parents, teachers and everyone else thinks its going to fix everything and the kid is automatically going to be cured overnight. Secondly the drugs are usually used wrong or given wrong, most parents will not or are afraid to do drug holidays which is where the kid does not take any drug usually weekends, holidays or vacations and only use it M-F or while in school. Parents become dependent on the drug because they are afraid to deal with the kid "off their meds' so the kid ends up taking the drug year round. Taking the drug year round or all the time will lead to taxiphylaxis where the kid needs a higher dose. Next is the FACT the kid has a label associated with them so anytime the kid does not fit the scope of normal life they are referred as ADD or ADHD. If you have never seen a parent whose kid is out of ADD/ADHD meds they are usually the worst person to deal with. These meds are used as "in school babysitters" for teachers and at home for parents who do not want to watch their kids. Now this is not saying all parents are like this but the ones I typically see. My family doctor wants to put me on meds as a kid and THANK GOD my mother said no. For a lot of kids is a medication induced coma.