TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: mrtwidster1 on December 15, 2014, 03:57:24 PM
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When I bought my 330 cyl and + 4 crank I also purchased ESR's new cases. Well I had to call Mr sanders to place the order because he does not offer a 330 PV stroker kit on his website (He mentioned that he has not updated the site). He shows the non PV but not the PV one. Any way when i was talking to him I thought that I would need the extra tall case for the stroker. He said he now uses a cylinder that is cast to the correct height for the stoker. In other words it is made specially for the stroker. So if you order a stroker cly kit and a set of cases call him and tell him what you want when placing your order. He was telling me out of a courtesy. He could have just sent me the long rod case and I would not have prob. known the difference. But he was good enough to explain it too me even though he really did not have too.
Just wanted to pass this info on and give a props to Mr Sanders for great customer service.
This may be old news but I have not seen it posted, so forgive me if it is redundant.
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not at all thanks for the info. I read somewhere LED gets the cases or the cylinder to his specs from eddie, cant remember which one
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Thats new to me! (and cool info!)
You have been able to get his cases for the stroke you want.. He casts tall and machines the cyl boss (for lack of better term) down to the correct height for your setup to eliminate the spacer.
for instance I have a set of his cases for a pro-x 5mm stroker cylinder that will not require a spacer. Are you sure he is casting different length cylinders? pretty cool if he is!! Thanks for the info
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That may be what he is doing, but I was understanding that he had a specific Cylinder for the Stroker. Either way, it is like you stated eliminating the spacer plate.
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I would think that the Sleeve would be specific to the stroker set up not just the casting. Just a guess.
Seems to me the stroker port windows would be in a different location in relation to the longer stroke. Then again just a guess. I'm sure Mr. Sanders would clarify if I called him.
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Yes if he has a stroker cylinder that doesn't require tall deck case or spacer plate, the casting and the sleeve would both have to be specific to the setup to get the stroke length and port timing correct.
I wouldn't doubt he has done that, Eddie is a great guy for the R... I was more excited and trying to make sure I understood what you are telling us correctly than doubting or arguing you!
thanks again for the info.. I will check with ESR on this for the next engine build I do for sure! (Now Im starting to wonder if we can talk him into modifying the case casting to allow for a bigger stroke, combine tall deck case with taller cylinder and create monsters... lol :)
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Are you sure he is casting different length cylinders? pretty cool if he is!! Thanks for the info
Yep that's exactly what he's doing. The CPI cylinders were always available in longer lengths, which is why they were more suited for stroker motors.
I think Arlan talked to Eddie about it and got him to cast the longer cylinders for the increased stroke. Crazy what can happen when two builders respect each other!
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Sweet!! great news!
Thanks guys!
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Yes, Arlan has complained for some time now that we all want to put stroker cranks on cylinders designed for stock stroke. I have a stock stroke Puma and two 4mil Puma's. The port windows are spread apart on the stroker cylinder which leaves room for everything to be set the way the builders needs it to be. ESR #1 in my book after CP Industries. Naw they are both freaking awesome!!! Now Arlan won't be able to complain. :lol:
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Cool news!!
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(http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh331/mrtwidster1/ED42AFE5-78EA-49C9-B9DC-F98F670CB7D3_zps2mpoxvq0.jpg) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/mrtwidster1/media/ED42AFE5-78EA-49C9-B9DC-F98F670CB7D3_zps2mpoxvq0.jpg.html)
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No spacer plate needed with this setup. Thankyou Mr Sanders
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That is Really Cool!!
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That is a cool way to have the cyl setup marked on them. Yep that would be a different sleeve for the taller non dome mod style stroker cyl.
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The way that stampings reading though, its saying you still need the 190 spacer plate. Way its reading to me, hope I'm wrong though.
I tell you, you cant beat what Eddies doing for the 250R.
How many companys we know of, going out on a limb with no insurance of a return, developing new replacement parts for a 250R when 80% of this country is gone 4 poke crazy.
I'm dumb about quite a few things, but when you can build a racing 2 stroke engine for half what it would cost to build a 4 poke, where would common sence come in & I would kinda know better than to mess with the 4 poke. Thats what I dont understand about racers today, must have some mighty deep pockets not to be able to see the cost difference.
Neil
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The way that stampings reading though, its saying you still need the 190 spacer plate. Way its reading to me, hope I'm wrong though.
Neil
that is exactly what i am getting out of the cylinder marking also. the cylinder requires the spacer plate, but since the cases deck height is compensated accordingly, you dont need one. but if you were to use stock cases i assume u would then need to. that is how i read it anyway. if he was taking the time to machine it into it like that and it didnt need a spacer plate like all other esr prox cylinders, he would put "no spacer plt needed" or something
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Thats the way I read it for sure. Maybe the existing castings or molds are not set up to add enough to the bottom to eliminate the spacer plates on oem spec cases. Maybe someday but not a big deal until then....
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That issue of the cylinder spacer plate needing to be used, was addressed quite a few years ago. Would say as far back as to when ESR was still using the Pro-x cylinder castings, but LA Sleeve didnt offer any changes.
At that time, the Pro-x had 5~6 different castings used, 250, 265, 310 non pv & then a pv oval exhaust casting. A 330 non pv & a 330 pv oval exhaust, then the 350 non pv & pv oval port version. The 330 was a single casting not used for any other size, but a good machinest could bore & fit in a 350 sleeve.
So, if they were to change the machining to do away with the spacer plate, that would have been different castings & different sleeves altogether. Talk about some MFGing cost, so they went the cheaper route & did the cheap spacer plate.
The Pro-x in the begining, 250/265/310cc, could bolt direct onto a TRX250R crankcase with a short rod crank & no spacer plate needed & it just never changed even though Honda went to a longer con rod.
This new cylinder ESR offering, means more work for Eddie to do away with the spacer plate, but here again hes doing what others wouldnt even try to change.
Neil
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I am Using ESR cases. I was originally going to use ESR's case' that was created for the stroker but since he has changed the stroker cylinder he said the set up i needed was the 210 decked case. I am sure this is due to using the long rod on the stroker crank. I have not put this motor together yet, and won't for a while but I am confident the cylinder and case's are correct for the +4 setup. His website does outline what the purpose for the 3 different deck heights.
Great discussion here!
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My take on his offered case heights is this..
Stock deck height... 85/86 short rod....
210 deck height...long rod 85/86 piston.
270 deck height...stroker 85/86 style piston.
Cpi cylinders.. cast taller to allow for stroker modification. ESR stoker cylinder.. same as cpi cast taller. All the rest standard oem length cylinders. Just a guess, may be wrong so don't take it to the bank.
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Again. I am using ESR cases,
Just call ESR. Mr Sanders is a great guy to talk to and he will explain it!! Hahaha I'm seeing cross eyed now!!!
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how is the 330 stroker running?
i just wanted to confirm i talked to arlan the other day and he did confirm that eddie is cutting cylinders in correct port layouts for any given stroke, up to +8mill :)
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how is the 330 stroker running?
i just wanted to confirm i talked to arlan the other day and he did confirm that eddie is cutting cylinders in correct port layouts for any given stroke, up to +8mill :)
Now thats sounding good, hes really got the ball rolling now.
All the new stuff Eddies doing for the 250R & then Arlan doing those gears, looks like the most important parts are being produced.
HELLO HONDA, where you at ??.
Well we all know where, producing those high dollar 4 pokers robing most all of the racers out there.
Neil
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how is the 330 stroker running?
The motor is assembled and installed. May crank it this weekend??
Sorry just now seeing this question.
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When you buy new cases from Eddie you can specify the deck height. Stock +.190 or.+250. The cylinders are the same length as stock unless you buy an engine builders package. They can be a little longer.
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Yes you can specify options on deck ht when ordering cases. On the cyl its not just builder kits any kit eddie does as well can be taller as needed.