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Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: Anthony0327 on January 14, 2015, 04:04:02 AM

Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 14, 2015, 04:04:02 AM
Can anyone point me in the right direction of someone who can repair cases and do it right?. I was putting my engine together and torquing my bolts down and stripped a thread. Can't believe this happened! I went by the manual and was even using less torque then it called for. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: JesseA420 on January 14, 2015, 06:55:17 AM
but a drill, tap, and time-cert insert and take your time :)
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: dem3500 on January 14, 2015, 07:46:32 AM
Yea, use a threaded insert. Its actually stronger that way and you don't need to tear down to a bare case.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Pumashine on January 14, 2015, 09:57:37 AM
Quote from: Anthony0327;48680
Can anyone point me in the right direction of someone who can repair cases and do it right?. I was putting my engine together and torquing my bolts down and stripped a thread. Can't believe this happened! I went by the manual and was even using less torque then it called for. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Which threaded hole did you strip? Case halves have to be separated. I bought a 6mm, 8mm, and 10mm helicoil thread repair kit. I can send some part#s later. Timeserts for the oil drain plug is around $100. Best to borrow one from a friend.

The procedure is fairly simple. The kit comes with a drill and tap and an assortment of inserts. Just drill, tap and thread in a new insert with the tool provided. Takes about 15 minutes.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: dem3500 on January 14, 2015, 10:22:19 AM
I misspoke about not taking the case halva apart. I was thinking you stripped a clutch/stator cover bolt. Too early in the morn lol. Yea how puma described the process is spot on. Its really that easy. Just take your time. Cast aluminum can be fragile.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 14, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
To clarify, the cases are brand new oem and after I did that I split them again because this need to be done correctly. Also I really don't trust myself to make a repair like this. It's the threaded hole directly to the left of the shift shaft area. Also with these time certs, do they come out just like new? Here's a picture of where I stripped. (http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/984_4322_2017-04-18_7062.jpg)
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: F-Red on January 14, 2015, 12:49:58 PM
Damn, that sucks balls!! Take your time. It works. Good luck! :encouragement:
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: dem3500 on January 14, 2015, 12:56:45 PM
I honestly don't know what a time cert is but puma and I are talking about hell coil. They are very simple to use. If you have enough knowledge to split cases then you can use a hell coil. Everything comes in a kit and has instructions. You shouldn't have any problem doing it yourself!
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Piney0 on January 14, 2015, 01:02:52 PM
Timsert or helicoil, pick your flavor.  If this is something you don't feel comfortable doing, find a local machine shop and see what they would charge to fix it.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: JesseA420 on January 14, 2015, 01:05:39 PM
Quote from: Pumashine;48688
Timeserts for the oil drain plug is around $100.

$100?
 http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Threading/Thread-Repair-Reinforcement/Threaded-Inserts/Thread-Locking-Inserts/?navid=12106001+4294914258+4288198876#navid=12106001+4294914258+4288241425+4288241278

drain plug is 12x1.5, you could just get a 12x1.25 or 12.x1.75 plug and use one of these. cheap and will never strip again. i despise helicoils. this is a solid plug with keyed outside diameter threads to prevent it from ever moving again. just watch some youtube vids on thread repair, it is a simple process and no reason to pay shop fees to someone to do it for ya.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 14, 2015, 01:09:16 PM
Anyone know why this might have happened? I'm using stainless steel Allen bolts to assemble everything and I followed the assembly guidelines in the manual exactly. I was tightening in increments I hand tightened everything then went to 10 ft-lb and then I used 18 ft-lb. maybe it's my torque wrench?
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: JesseA420 on January 14, 2015, 01:18:16 PM
its cast aluminum. i never use a torque wrench on those tiny suckers, i just do it by feel. there may be flaws in the casting.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: dem3500 on January 14, 2015, 01:19:03 PM
Stainless gulls really easily. You next to put a dab of grease/oil/anti sieze on any stainless bolt or nut. Even if your using a stainless on stainless fastener. Stainless is really "grabby". There grate to use cause they don't rust but everything has its pros and con's lol
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Pumashine on January 14, 2015, 01:25:20 PM
Quote from: JesseA420;48702
$100?
 http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Threading/Thread-Repair-Reinforcement/Threaded-Inserts/Thread-Locking-Inserts/?navid=12106001+4294914258+4288198876#navid=12106001+4294914258+4288241425+4288241278

drain plug is 12x1.5, you could just get a 12x1.25 or 12.x1.75 plug and use one of these. cheap and will never strip again.

I was talking about the whole thread repair kit.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Pumashine on January 14, 2015, 01:26:54 PM
Quote from: Anthony0327;48704
Anyone know why this might have happened?
Your torque wrench was not set correctly or it was not working. 5 ft-lbs will work. 6 is max

Helicoils are stainless steel. You you need some blue to keep them from galling your stainless bolts
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 14, 2015, 01:40:20 PM
I appreciate all the feedback and help. So what your saying is don't go by the book for the torque settings? If that's the case I had the torque set way to high.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Pumashine on January 14, 2015, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: Anthony0327;48710
I appreciate all the feedback and help. So what your saying is don't go by the book for the torque settings? If that's the case I had the torque set way to high.
I thought it was 6 ft-lbs for 6mm bolts. You must have been reading the setting for 8mm bolts. 20 ft-lbs on your head nuts is OK but not 6mm bolts.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Tbone07 on January 14, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
18 ft-lbs? That's wayyy too high

For reference I believe the base nuts are 18-21. Don't quote me on that, could be head nuts too.

To prevent myself from over-tightening crucial nuts and bolts I make sure I use a 1/4 inch drive ratchet.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 14, 2015, 02:57:33 PM
After I get this fixed I will do everything by feel. The bolts that mount it to the frame will be doing most of the support anyways. I think I will purchase all OEM bolts from Honda this time also for the engine cases. I will look into getting one of the kits your talking about Puma. Just want to make sure it gets done right. Thanks for the help.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Burns363R on January 14, 2015, 03:04:37 PM
6mm bolts is 96in/lb which is 8 ft/lb.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: JOHNNY FIVE on January 14, 2015, 03:04:42 PM
The stainless bolt kits,have a lower torque setting than the stock bolts.Like Puma said,the case and case cover bolts should be torqued to 5,no more than 6.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: CeaserTheThird on January 15, 2015, 04:35:25 AM
So these Case Bolts pictured are Tourqed at  ?

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/ceaserthethird/8A148D99-78C5-41A2-8E80-D595253B9E57-1247-000000F6A1D42D4E_zpsd87a904c.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/ceaserthethird/B303C1C2-AE1D-4F5B-ABFB-4D9C4A663947-1247-000000F68503324E_zpsb49890ec.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/ceaserthethird/B25850FE-492F-49B8-B63E-CF403415AEE9-1247-000000F6ABF6B560_zps496000a4.jpg)
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: dem3500 on January 15, 2015, 05:31:28 AM
Just snug them with a 1/4" drive ratchet and quit worrying about torque!
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 15, 2015, 09:26:39 AM
Yeah I messed up. I should have just snugged them the first time. Just do it in a pattern when you do tighten them and from all the feedback I'm sure you will be fine.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Tbone07 on January 15, 2015, 09:40:10 AM
I also put a tiny drop of blue Loctite on them, just for insurance. 1/4 ratchet is the key though
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Anthony0327 on January 15, 2015, 10:07:39 AM
I sure wish I would have consulted before I made my move to assemble. I'm gonna fixe this right and make sure I don't screw up again. Thanks again for all the help folks!
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Wrench U on January 17, 2016, 11:51:00 PM
Inch lbs with a 1/4 drive. If u want to be exact. I like using T-handles on case bolts, dosent let u get to much leverage and u can fell the bolt stretch. After a couple u will be able to fell the cases come together then seal. I also like to lap cases on 400-600 grit wet/dry sand paper on glass or marble slab with some lubricant. Not necessary on R's cause they use a thick gasket but u would be amazed how distorted they can get. Definitely! use anti size on stainless to stainless.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: thesmith87250r on January 18, 2016, 12:03:35 AM
Um is it possible  that you  can use a bolt  that is about  4 or 5 threads longer an grab some thread a lil deeper in the case ? Maybe  the new bolt ya used was a lil shorter than stock ?
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Aceman on January 18, 2016, 08:01:44 PM
Quote from: Tbone07;48753
I also put a tiny drop of blue Loctite on them, just for insurance. 1/4 ratchet is the key though

I agree with this!!  I'm pretty picky about making sure I put a couple drops on pretty much EVERY bolt, but my last trip to Winchester my motor locked up when I shot off into the brush on a tight trail.  I went to start it back up and it was locked up tight.  Come to find out, the bolt holding the case halves together behind the flywheel had backed out and wedged itself just right such that the motor wouldn't spin over.  I don't know if I forgot to put some on that bolt or just not enough, NEVER AGAIN!

Just make sure to use blue loctite, not red, for the bolts that go into aluminum.
Title: Case Thread Repair
Post by: Pumashine on January 18, 2016, 08:25:27 PM
Quote from: Aceman;63378
Just make sure to use blue loctite, not red, for the bolts that go into aluminum.
I only use blue. Especially on the bolts under the stator cover