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ATC250R Forum => ATC250R => Topic started by: pantera1975 on July 24, 2013, 07:25:39 PM
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Should I just order the Progressive suspension springs listed for my 85 250r forks or is there another spring anyone has used that was better? Thanks
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I just used 15wt in mine instead of switching springs. It still has a nice feel to it, but firmed it up some. I hate mushy forks.
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I tried 15 wt oil on rail bed trails and dirt with rocks it was to stiff for me I could feel everything thru the bars so I stick with 5 or 10 wt
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Ride faster then. JK I kinda felt this was gonna happen. Try them(the springs). Yeah it's stiffer(15wt) but it worked great for my application(dunes to rutted and rocky trails). A lot of suspension is finding what works for you, which is why racers test so much. Also I'm sure your riding area is still different from mine(along with our preferences too) even though we both have rocks and ruts. It's hard to setup some forks(especially these old school forks) to soak up stuff while going both slow and fast, along with all the different terrains you find along the way. IMO it sounds like the prog springs may be a very good option for you. Try them is the only thing else I know to suggest and please be sure to share your thoughts on how well they work if you do please.
Have a good day.
Dennis
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Its weird I have 2 ATC's 85 and 86 250R 3 years ago they where both stock and had the same tires on them same everything and my 85 is more tippier. I even put the 86 original springs in the 85 and its still tippy Im stumped on that the only thing that I found that might make a difference is one of the 85 lower fork tubes must be bent because when I work the fork in and out with no spring it drags. Even when I push the 85 I can tell the front axle bolt doesn't stay parallel with the ground. Mabey I should look for some different forks.
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I haven't tried the race tech rebuild yet, but I have been tempted to try. I have replaced the OEM springs in both my flat track 200x and 1985 250R with Progressive mfg. progressive springs and IMO, for the money it is a night and day difference. Two thumbs up from me. Also, I only use Bel Ray 20wt in my forks.
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Yeah, Progressive springs are the way to go, especially if you are heavier and/or are a fast rider. I get them for all of my machines.
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I'm running the progressive springs and the race tech gold valve emulators FEGV 3801 and the forks work great! These allow you to tune the compression damping of the fork separate from the rebound (stock, oil viscosity affects both). I think now I'm running about 12.5 wt oil, 375cc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GV0S2S/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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I'm running the progressive springs and the race tech gold valve emulators FEGV 3801 and the forks work great! These allow you to tune the compression damping of the fork separate from the rebound (stock, oil viscosity affects both). I think now I'm running about 12.5 wt oil, 375cc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GV0S2S/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Cool set up do you have any pics of the install?
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I'm running the progressive springs and the race tech gold valve emulators FEGV 3801 and the forks work great! These allow you to tune the compression damping of the fork separate from the rebound (stock, oil viscosity affects both). I think now I'm running about 12.5 wt oil, 375cc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GV0S2S/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I checked out that link. So are you using those on an ATC 250R? If so, do you have any idea what years that product will fit? Doesn't say it will fit the ATC in the description, but amazon sucks with description sometimes. I would be interested in picking a set up to make my front suspension that much better!
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I have the gold valve fork emulator on my 86 Tecate. As far as I know there is no direct way to reference the one that will work with your ride, unless someone bought them and still has the part number (I have it for the Tecate). Go to the Race Tech website and look for their downloads; they have one that provides all the dimensions of their emulators. Then, you need to get the top diameter of your damper rod (the inner pipe that bolts to the bottom of the fork) and match to the appropriate diameter valve emulator. The emulator should be a millimeter or two smaller than the top of the damper rod. It sits on top. You also need to get the appropriate depth, too, because the emulator fits partially inside the top of the damper rod (the portion that is larger than the bottom portion). If you give them a call they can help you.
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I checked out that link. So are you using those on an ATC 250R? If so, do you have any idea what years that product will fit? Doesn't say it will fit the ATC in the description, but amazon sucks with description sometimes. I would be interested in picking a set up to make my front suspension that much better!
They are universal fit for 38-39mm damping rod forks. The install is pretty easy you remove the damping rods and drill out the compression hole to 5/16" i believe and two additional below it, debur and reinstall. The emulator sits on top of the damping rod and then the spring sits on top and holds it down. You adjust the compression damping by removing the emulator and adjusting the preload on the valve spring. Rebound damping is controlled by oil viscosity. Here is some more info:
http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How%20They%20Work
http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulator%20Tuning%20Guide
http://racetech.com/html_files/EMULATOR_FITTING.html
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Another word for dampening rod would be piston or pipe seat? What # is the part you drill out in the OEM Honda parts look up #15? There is 2 hole in the rod according to the picture. So that little valve sits on top of the rod and fits inside the spring. Do you use the stock oil level too? This is pretty cool
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Another word for dampening rod would be piston or pipe seat? What # is the part you drill out in the OEM Honda parts look up #15? There is 2 hole in the rod according to the picture. So that little valve sits on top of the rod and fits inside the spring. Do you use the stock oil level too? This is pretty cool
Yes that is the right part. The microfiche doesn't show it accurately but there are two sets of holes up by the oil ring that control rebound, you leave those alone. Then there is a through hole on the bottom that controls compression. You drill that one out along with two more through holes to basically bypass the compression damping portion of the rod which allows the emulator to work its magic. I'm using a little less oil than stock, the emulator and progessive springs both displace more volume so less is needed. According to the tuning instruction oil level controls the last 30% of stroke, basically the forks bottoming resistance. You adjust it to where it suits your riding conditions. I believe I ended up with 375cc of 12.5 wt (half 15wt/half 10wt) Belray synthetic oil for woods racing. Here is a picture I found on the net, not of a 250R damping rod but pretty close showing the compression holes drilled out:
(http://gallery.rantthisspace.com/index.php?cmd=image&sfpg=cHJvamVjdF8yMDAxL2ZvcmtfcmVidWlsZC8qZm9ya3MwMTIuanBnKjc0ODM2NWRmN2JkNjNkZjU4MjRjNjVjZmE3ZDM3Mjkz)
(http://image.motorcyclecruiser.com/f/32742966/1006_crup_08_z+race_tech_gold_valve_cartridge_emulator_and_spring_kit+hole_drilling.jpg)
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OK cool thread. These are ATC 250R forks in the picture correct?
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OK cool thread. These are ATC 250R forks in the picture correct?
No but very similar, damping rod forks.
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Its weird I have 2 ATC's 85 and 86 250R 3 years ago they where both stock and had the same tires on them same everything and my 85 is more tippier. I even put the 86 original springs in the 85 and its still tippy Im stumped on that the only thing that I found that might make a difference is one of the 85 lower fork tubes must be bent because when I work the fork in and out with no spring it drags. Even when I push the 85 I can tell the front axle bolt doesn't stay parallel with the ground. Mabey I should look for some different forks.
If you get the forks straight and still feel a handling difference, that could be most likely due to the fact Honda Changed the rake geometry in 86. I don't know the exact specifics, but from what I gathered, the pro's desert racing complained the 85 washed out in hi speed bumps so Honda pushed the front out in the frame building in 86 to help with the stability.. With the 85 having the reduced rake, theoretically it makes it turn more nimble, or faster if you will. It is all in preference, but IMO the 85 turns better in tight areas such as MX racing.
The over all wheel base in 85 was 51 inches and in 86, 51.5 inches.
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If anyone is interested in getting Emulators or anything from Race Tech, I am a Dealer for them, and can usually meet or beat most companies prices.. I also would appreciate the opportunity at your business! Just an FYI, I am also certified from their training school as well.
Evan @ SRS
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I have been working with the emulators for some time (long before Race Tech even knew about using them in the ATC 250R...heck I even helped them with the set up...lol) and have found that the best springs for the ATC 250R are the .52kg. Race Tech will recomend the .47kg but they will most likely be to soft. ATVonDemand had Race Tech do the mods in there ATC 250R build and went with the .47kgs and were to soft. I recomended the .52kg springs and they liked to results. I have the part numbers for the right emulators and springs somewhere and can post them if needed. The emulators also come with two springs...blue (installed) and yellow. I recomend the yellow.
If you just want to do progressive suspension springs, I recomend 15 wt fork oil at 5.5 inches from the top
Also, someone said they mixed oil at 50/50 ratio to get a middle weight. Unfortunatly that is not how it works. There is a formula for mixing fork oil weights that I too can dig out and post if needed.
The 85 ATC 250R has 21* of rake, the 86 ATC 250R has 21.5* of rake. Of course it is all relevent to the size of tires and your ride height as the will effect your rake.
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So, Black Sheep, you would recommend Race Tech springs over the Progressive springs? I knew Race Tech sold springs but I never looked through their downloads to see if they had any to fit the 250R. Is it a progressive spring rate? If you would post those part numbers that would be great.
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Well it really depends on your weight and riding style and what you are using it for. Trails and play riding the progressive suspension springs will work well. If you MX or go big on jumps I would recomend the .52kg Race Tech springs. I'll dig up the part numbers tonight and post up later.
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Race tech has replacement front springs for ATC? Thanks for the info.
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You can enter you weight and ability and they will tell you which spring....
Whenever you put your gold valve together make sure you tighten the nut to specified torque, which is very specific.
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black sheep...was wondering about the fork oil formula to get 12.5 wt...also im 230lbs .ive ordered 3801 emulators..was gonna use progressive springs..i don't mx just woods ride,,any recomandations?