TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 12:29:50 PM
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I'm thinking about starting a build this spring/summer and debating whether or not to do aa 95mm bore sabertooth 569cc based build with a custom in-frame pipe which would require cutting and custom fabbing the frame in order to make it fit. Has anyone done this particular build and if so how did it come out. Any issues? What were they? Also what are realistic HP and TQ numbers on a setup like that. I ride a shpinx 363 now and love it. And in the middle of a puma 431 build which I hope to get done by spring/early summer. Then I want to build the baddest R possible. But I'm trying to figure out all issues if any sabers have. Thanks in advance for help/advice.
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Rob give Pete a call he's built them on gas and alky and has for years.
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The 569 saber I had was 98mm bore. With a cr 500 rod. 95mm would probably be the 496 based on which crank you use. Pete would be good guy to call.
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I'm not going to limit the cc size just B/c of trx rod. I'll use whatever rod that needs to be used in order to make a 569cc engine happen. I've heard of yz490, cr500, and ktm 500 rods all being used on puma or saber motors. I'm not extremely familiar with which rod is best for the saber but I guess I should talk to Pete. But I was hoping to get some guys first hand opinions on their own saber builds. What they think about that motor. Is their anyone that can throw their opinions in? I'm thinking saber 569cc midrange port w/cr250 ignition and running on race fuel. (Sunoco supreme 112, VP c12)
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But I don't want a drag only machine. I want to be able to have an in frame pipe and not have any worries of overheating with too small a stinger or expansion chamber. I know that the frame will need to be cut in order for this setup to work and just wondering if anyone has done this here. Thanks for the help.
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I'm not going to limit the cc size just B/c of trx rod. I'll use whatever rod that needs to be used in order to make a 569cc engine happen. I've heard of yz490, cr500, and ktm 500 rods all being used on puma or saber motors. I'm not extremely familiar with which rod is best for the saber but I guess I should talk to Pete. But I was hoping to get some guys first hand opinions on their own saber builds. What they think about that motor. Is their anyone that can throw their opinions in? I'm thinking saber 569cc midrange port w/cr250 ignition and running on ras fuel. (Sunoco supreme 112, VP c12)
Try [MENTION=74]traxman[/MENTION] he's been running them for a while and Pete builds his motors, if you're dead set on one I'd give Pete a call and see what you'd need to get.
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Only issue your have is finding in a 98mm bore saber top end. Pretty sure they don't make them any more, biggest bore they build now is 95mm. You could do a 539 with the right rod. Pete might have one just give him a call.
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Only issue your have is finding in a 98mm bore saber top end. Pretty sure they don't make them any more, biggest bore they build now is 95mm. You could do a 539 with the right rod. Pete might have one just give him a call.
I am thinking Pete will bore any size he wants to. :carlos: has lots of cylinders for sale. He had to buy like 20. But the port timings are for drag racing. Pete had a sleeve made by advanced sleeve to change port timings for dune riding the Minitooth.
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This is my sphinx head on a liger. Just for size comparison.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/30_4521_2017-04-18_3213.jpg)
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Rob, Troy had a saber for a while you may talk to him.
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What is troys name on here?
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[MENTION=47]troybilt[/MENTION]
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This is my sphinx head on a liger. Just for size comparison.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/30_4521_2017-04-18_8374.jpg)
That's insane how much bigger the liger cylinder is compared to the sphinx. And the cr500 liger is a 97 mm bore if I remember right compared to a 78 mm on the sphinx. 95, 97, 98 mm bores are ridiculous. I can't imagine what it's like to pin the throttle on one of those when the motor/carb is dialed in. Socket popper. Lol. Must be like trying to ride a rocket.
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[MENTION=47]troybilt[/MENTION]
Thanks man
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I bought my old saber motor from bill1984 on this site, he had three sabers at the time, he should be able to give you a lot of info.
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I bought my old saber motor from bill1984 on this site, he had three sabers at the time, he should be able to give you a lot of info.
Perfect. I'll message him too. Thanks buddy.
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i think there was 2 or so versions of the ktm 500 rod. im not real familiar with the early version but i know its not cheap. the later version isnt cheap either at $300-$400 and you just cant go buy one on every street corner. the lower pin is 24mm and it uses smallish bearings and its fairly short at 140mm. not a good choice imo. cr5 or something from a snombile is probly what i would look into
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i think there was 2 or so versions of the ktm 500 rod. im not real familiar with the early version but i know its not cheap. the later version isnt cheap either at $300-$400 and you just cant go buy one on every street corner. the lower pin is 24mm and it uses smallish bearings and its fairly short at 140mm. not a good choice imo. cr5 or something from a snombile is probly what i would look into
Gotcha. Have you ever heard of someone using the yz490 rod?? I've heard that being used either on pumas or sabers? If not cr500 rod is the ticket?
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Does anyone know much about if anyone has ever successfully built a counterbalanced cr500 motor yet? I've heard bits and pieces over the years but nothing concrete. If so a liger counterbalanced motor in a trx would be another Badass build. But only if counter balancer was perfected on a cr500 motor. I think liger cylinders can go up to 610 cc's or so.
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The liger is flat out ripping the cr 500 cases apart.. After a liger completely destroyed a set of lt 500 cases, Pete built a 1/2" steel adapter plate to prevent making welds on the lt cases and to stiffen the whole set-up up. It still destroyed cases and twisted the steel plate over a 1/4". It doesn't matter what rod you use, that doesn't change your displacement. I haven't heard anyone using the ktm rod on the saber, only the artic cat rod and cr 500 rod.. My saber has ran the same cr500 rod for the last 8 years and is finally receiving a new one as we speak. Pete prefers the cr 500 rod simply due to rotating mass since it's 1/2 the weight of the artic cat rod (not literally 1/2, but a lot lighter).. My motor is currently a 532cc 97x72mm and on top of running methanol I've also put a 50hp shot of nitrous to it without hurting the cr500 rod, so I would think it'd be up to the challenge for any dune set-up.. Oh and my cylinder was one of the very first sabers cylinders and was a 95mm bore. Pete bored it for me to 97mm. They are all the same castings..
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(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad97/4traxman/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/4traxman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
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(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad97/4traxman/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/4traxman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
Awesome, i love the look of that black saber top end. Makes wish I had the money to build one.
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(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad97/4traxman/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/4traxman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
Got to love the apple pie jar there on the right side and liger zilla cases.
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Awesome, i love the look of that black saber top end.
X2. And that got me thinking.. I like the look of the Sphynx and Saber more than the Puma.
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I'm going to make some calls tomorrow to get the 411 on the saber build. Going to call a few builders and get some questions answered.
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Awesome, i love the look of that black saber top end. Makes wish I had the money to build one.
The black one is not a saber. Those are the Caracal triple set. Traxman has one and I have the other. Pete used them for the minitooths. Not sure if the one in the pic has been used yet. The cylinder is used on the banshee so the exhaust angle is not the same as the trx.
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The black one is not a saber. Those are the Caracal triple set. Traxman has one and I have the other. Pete used them for the minitooths. Not sure if the one in the pic has been used yet. The cylinder is used on the banshee so the exhaust angle is not the same as the trx.
Last I heard it was still available when I thought about doing one.
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I miss mine. I need to build another.... I'd start with a fresh unported cylinder though, that was part of my problem.
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The black one is not a saber. Those are the Caracal triple set. Traxman has one and I have the other. Pete used them for the minitooths. Not sure if the one in the pic has been used yet. The cylinder is used on the banshee so the exhaust angle is not the same as the trx.
Thanks, I was trying to figure out why it looked a little different. Just happy to know the community has a real saber builder left. Hopefully one day I can have Pete build me a saber.
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Is Pete (Hybrid Technology) the best bet on trying to find a used Saber or Puma top half?
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Is Pete (Hybrid Technology) the best bet on trying to find a used Saber or Puma top half?
Hybrid Engineering? He does great work, why do you want just a cylinder instead of having it built right the first time?
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Hybrid Engineering? He does great work, why do you want just a cylinder instead of having it built right the first time?
X2 these cylinder can be a bugger, it's a must these are set up to a T properly..they are not forgiving as oem and esr cylinders...not doughting you can't do it but seen it happen more than once..good luck on you build we all learn something new every day..
Kenny
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There's a possibility I have a good bottom end already and was gonna send it to him?
But I've already spoke to him and had a great talk, he'll most likely have my junk in a few weeks.
Thanks for your input anyways.
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There's a possibility I have a good bottom end already and was gonna send it to him?
But I've already spoke to him and had a great talk, he'll most likely have my junk in a few weeks.
Thanks for your input anyways.
Pete is a great guy to deal with I'm on my 3rd motor built by him and they do move good.