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Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 12:29:50 PM

Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 12:29:50 PM
I'm thinking about starting a build this spring/summer and debating whether or not to do aa 95mm bore sabertooth 569cc based build with a custom in-frame pipe which would require cutting and custom fabbing the frame in order to make it fit. Has anyone done this particular build and if so how did it come out. Any issues? What were they? Also what are realistic HP and TQ numbers on a setup like that. I ride a shpinx 363 now and love it. And in the middle of a puma 431 build which I hope to get done by spring/early summer. Then I want to build the baddest R possible. But I'm trying to figure out all issues if any sabers have. Thanks in advance for help/advice.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on November 22, 2015, 12:43:40 PM
Rob give Pete a call he's built them on gas and alky and has for years.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Saber569r on November 22, 2015, 01:33:30 PM
The 569 saber I had was 98mm bore. With a cr 500 rod. 95mm would probably be the 496 based on which crank you use. Pete would be good guy to call.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 02:06:16 PM
I'm not going to limit the cc size just B/c of trx rod. I'll use whatever rod that needs to be used in order to make a 569cc engine happen. I've heard of yz490, cr500, and ktm 500 rods all being used on puma or saber motors. I'm not extremely familiar with which rod is best for the saber but I guess I should talk to Pete.  But I was hoping to get some guys first hand opinions on their own saber builds. What they think about that motor. Is their anyone that can throw their opinions in? I'm thinking saber 569cc midrange port w/cr250 ignition and running on race fuel. (Sunoco supreme 112, VP c12)
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 02:09:41 PM
But I don't want a drag only machine. I want to be able to have an in frame pipe and not have any worries of overheating with too small a stinger or expansion chamber. I know that the frame will need to be cut in order for this setup to work and just wondering if anyone has done this here. Thanks for the help.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on November 22, 2015, 02:38:34 PM
Quote from: Robsessed86;61207
I'm not going to limit the cc size just B/c of trx rod. I'll use whatever rod that needs to be used in order to make a 569cc engine happen. I've heard of yz490, cr500, and ktm 500 rods all being used on puma or saber motors. I'm not extremely familiar with which rod is best for the saber but I guess I should talk to Pete.  But I was hoping to get some guys first hand opinions on their own saber builds. What they think about that motor. Is their anyone that can throw their opinions in? I'm thinking saber 569cc midrange port w/cr250 ignition and running on ras fuel. (Sunoco supreme 112, VP c12)

Try [MENTION=74]traxman[/MENTION] he's been running them for a while and Pete builds his motors, if you're dead set on one I'd give Pete a call and see what you'd need to get.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Saber569r on November 22, 2015, 04:33:35 PM
Only issue your have is finding in a 98mm bore saber top end. Pretty sure they don't make them any more, biggest bore they build now is 95mm.  You could do a 539 with the right rod. Pete might have one just give him a call.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Pumashine on November 22, 2015, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Saber569r;61211
Only issue your have is finding in a 98mm bore saber top end. Pretty sure they don't make them any more, biggest bore they build now is 95mm.  You could do a 539 with the right rod. Pete might have one just give him a call.
I am thinking Pete will bore any size he wants to. :carlos: has lots of cylinders for sale. He had to buy like 20. But the port timings are for drag racing. Pete had a sleeve made by advanced sleeve to change port timings for dune riding the Minitooth.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Rupp250 on November 22, 2015, 09:35:26 PM
This is my sphinx head on a liger. Just for size comparison.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/30_4521_2017-04-18_3213.jpg)
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on November 22, 2015, 09:42:38 PM
Rob, Troy had a saber for a while you may talk to him.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 10:05:18 PM
What is troys name on here?
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on November 22, 2015, 10:14:49 PM
[MENTION=47]troybilt[/MENTION]
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 10:52:23 PM
Quote from: Rupp250;61223
This is my sphinx head on a liger. Just for size comparison.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/30_4521_2017-04-18_8374.jpg)


That's insane how much bigger the liger cylinder is compared to the sphinx. And the cr500 liger is a 97 mm bore if I remember right compared to a 78 mm on the sphinx. 95, 97, 98 mm bores are ridiculous. I can't imagine what it's like to pin the throttle on one of those when the motor/carb is  dialed in. Socket popper. Lol. Must be like trying to ride a rocket.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 22, 2015, 10:54:32 PM
Quote from: Skeans1;61227
[MENTION=47]troybilt[/MENTION]

Thanks man
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Saber569r on November 23, 2015, 08:41:05 PM
I bought my old saber motor from bill1984 on this site, he had three sabers at the time, he should be able to give you a lot of info.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 24, 2015, 05:49:14 AM
Quote from: Saber569r;61277
I bought my old saber motor from bill1984 on this site, he had three sabers at the time, he should be able to give you a lot of info.

Perfect. I'll message him too. Thanks buddy.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: udontknowme on November 24, 2015, 11:33:43 PM
i think there was 2 or so versions of the ktm 500 rod. im not real familiar with the early version but i know its not cheap. the later version isnt cheap either at $300-$400 and you just cant go buy one on every street corner. the lower pin is 24mm and it uses smallish bearings and its fairly short at 140mm. not a good choice imo. cr5 or something from a snombile is probly what i would look into
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 25, 2015, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: udontknowme;61334
i think there was 2 or so versions of the ktm 500 rod. im not real familiar with the early version but i know its not cheap. the later version isnt cheap either at $300-$400 and you just cant go buy one on every street corner. the lower pin is 24mm and it uses smallish bearings and its fairly short at 140mm. not a good choice imo. cr5 or something from a snombile is probly what i would look into



Gotcha. Have you ever heard of someone using the yz490 rod?? I've heard that being used either on pumas or sabers? If not cr500 rod is the ticket?
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 25, 2015, 11:25:57 AM
Does anyone know much about if anyone has ever successfully built a counterbalanced cr500 motor yet? I've heard bits and pieces over the years but nothing concrete. If so a liger counterbalanced motor in a trx would be another Badass build. But only if counter balancer was perfected on a cr500 motor. I think liger cylinders can go up to 610 cc's or so.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: traxman on November 25, 2015, 07:55:54 PM
The liger is flat out ripping the cr 500 cases apart.. After a liger completely destroyed a set of lt 500 cases, Pete built a 1/2" steel adapter plate to prevent making welds on the lt cases and to stiffen the whole set-up up.  It still destroyed cases and twisted the steel plate over a 1/4". It doesn't matter what rod you use, that doesn't change your displacement. I haven't heard anyone using the ktm rod on the saber, only the artic cat rod and cr 500 rod.. My saber has ran the same cr500 rod for the last 8 years and is finally receiving a new one as we speak. Pete prefers the cr 500 rod simply due to rotating mass since it's 1/2 the weight of the artic cat rod (not literally 1/2, but a lot lighter).. My motor is currently a 532cc 97x72mm and on top of running methanol I've also put a 50hp shot of nitrous to it without hurting the cr500 rod, so I would think it'd be up to the challenge for any dune set-up.. Oh and my cylinder was one of the very first sabers cylinders and was a 95mm bore. Pete bored it for me to 97mm. They are all the same castings..
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: traxman on November 25, 2015, 08:38:13 PM
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad97/4traxman/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/4traxman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Saber569r on November 26, 2015, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: traxman;61372
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad97/4traxman/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/4traxman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
Awesome, i love the look of that black saber top end. Makes wish I had the money to build one.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on November 26, 2015, 12:14:00 PM
Quote from: traxman;61372
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad97/4traxman/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/4traxman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)

Got to love the apple pie jar there on the right side and liger zilla cases.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: havinnoj on November 26, 2015, 06:10:24 PM
Quote from: Saber569r;61384
Awesome, i love the look of that black saber top end.

X2.  And that got me thinking.. I like the look of the Sphynx and Saber more than the Puma.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Robsessed86 on November 26, 2015, 08:56:45 PM
I'm going to make some calls tomorrow to get the 411 on the saber build. Going to call a few builders and get some questions answered.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Pumashine on November 28, 2015, 03:21:36 PM
Quote from: Saber569r;61384
Awesome, i love the look of that black saber top end. Makes wish I had the money to build one.
The black one is not a saber. Those are the Caracal triple set. Traxman has one and I have the other. Pete used them for the minitooths. Not sure if the one in the pic has been used yet. The cylinder is used on the banshee so the exhaust angle is not the same as the trx.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on November 28, 2015, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: Pumashine;61445
The black one is not a saber. Those are the Caracal triple set. Traxman has one and I have the other. Pete used them for the minitooths. Not sure if the one in the pic has been used yet. The cylinder is used on the banshee so the exhaust angle is not the same as the trx.

Last I heard it was still available when I thought about doing one.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: troybilt on November 30, 2015, 11:21:25 AM
I miss mine.  I need to build another....  I'd start with a fresh unported cylinder though, that was part of my problem.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Saber569r on December 03, 2015, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Pumashine;61445
The black one is not a saber. Those are the Caracal triple set. Traxman has one and I have the other. Pete used them for the minitooths. Not sure if the one in the pic has been used yet. The cylinder is used on the banshee so the exhaust angle is not the same as the trx.

Thanks, I was trying to figure out why it looked a little different. Just happy to know the community has a real saber builder left. Hopefully one day I can have Pete build me a saber.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Beat68CST on December 19, 2015, 09:18:09 AM
Is Pete (Hybrid Technology) the best bet on trying to find a used Saber or Puma top half?
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on December 19, 2015, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Beat68CST;62075
Is Pete (Hybrid Technology) the best bet on trying to find a used Saber or Puma top half?

Hybrid Engineering? He does great work, why do you want just a cylinder instead of having it built right the first time?
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: kb250r on December 19, 2015, 02:23:48 PM
Quote from: Skeans1;62077
Hybrid Engineering? He does great work, why do you want just a cylinder instead of having it built right the first time?


X2 these cylinder can be a bugger, it's a must these are set up to a T properly..they are not forgiving as oem and esr cylinders...not doughting you can't do it but seen it happen more than once..good luck on you build we all learn something new every day..

Kenny
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Beat68CST on December 20, 2015, 05:04:45 PM
There's a possibility I have a good bottom end already and was gonna send it to him?

But I've already spoke to him and had a great talk, he'll most likely have my junk in a few weeks.
 
Thanks for your input anyways.
Title: Saber 569???
Post by: Skeans1 on December 20, 2015, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: Beat68CST;62102
There's a possibility I have a good bottom end already and was gonna send it to him?

But I've already spoke to him and had a great talk, he'll most likely have my junk in a few weeks.
 
Thanks for your input anyways.

Pete is a great guy to deal with I'm on my 3rd motor built by him and they do move good.