TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: rockstar on February 12, 2016, 09:28:52 PM
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Ok 250r brethren my sphynx build is finally able to come to fruition, I've traveled a long road with my R and finally able to put a 4 stroke murderer in her.... With that said I have some questions on the transmission as far as reliability goes, options and what has everyone done and experienced in that department??? I'm lookin for the Neil to chime in cause I'm dead set on him for my build. What issues should I be aware of with this build, what problems if any did everyone come across? I just want to cover all aspects of this so all your input would greatly be appreciated as my girl been sitting idle in the garage for the past year waiting patiently to sing again and destroy 450's again..... Thanks for all your input long live our 250r passions....
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Ok 250r brethren my sphynx build is finally able to come to fruition, I've traveled a long road with my R and finally able to put a 4 stroke murderer in her.... With that said I have some questions on the transmission as far as reliability goes, options and what has everyone done and experienced in that department??? I'm lookin for the Neil to chime in cause I'm dead set on him for my build. What issues should I be aware of with this build, what problems if any did everyone come across? I just want to cover all aspects of this so all your input would greatly be appreciated as my girl been sitting idle in the garage for the past year waiting patiently to sing again and destroy 450's again..... Thanks for all your input long live our 250r passions....
Does Neil do cp cylinders? When I had my sphinx I ran a stock cyroed transmission. Only issue I had with the cylinder was an easy fix the two pipe plugs I had to retap.
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Honestly I cant answer to Neils stand on the sphynx but I'm hoping for him to work his 250r magic on my build.... Thanks for responding so quickly.... What pipe, carb, etc did everyone run with there build, obviously I know ultimately the builder "hopefully Neil" will steer me in the right direction but what worked for everyone here...
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Honestly I cant answer to Neils stand on the sphynx but I'm hoping for him to work his 250r magic on my build.... Thanks for responding so quickly.... What pipe, carb, etc did everyone run with there build, obviously I know ultimately the builder "hopefully Neil" will steer me in the right direction but what worked for everyone here...
I ran a custom Shearer in frame "torque" pipe and 40mm smart car, the whole set up ran extremely well together. You may give Pete at Hybrid Engineering a call as well.
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I've read many good things about Pete and would definitely consider him as well, I'm lookin for a strong mid to top performer and open to options....
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I'm not opposed to other builders and would appreciate input on others, I've had Neil locked for my build for a few years from all I read also he's not to far from the coal hills of Pennsylvania where I reside... But any and all information and views are greatly appreciated...
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Mid to top is what my sphinx I sold was setup for and like I said it ran extremely well it was a hybrid engineering motor.
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I don't believe Neil has much experience with the Sphinx. Not knocking him though. You may want to talk to him on the phone and get his feeling towards it. Bubba says he is booked out for several months. Try Mat Shearer for porting and Pipe.
I ran a stock trans on mine and it held up to drag racing and duning. Ticking time bomb though in my opinion. I would get it cryo'd and talk to LED for a 2nd gear. $.02
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id send it to Pete at Hybrid, Neil is more of a MX guy and not sure how much he's done with CPI cylinders. Don't short on the bottom end and transmission. Do it rite the first time, it's not fun looking down and seeing pieces of 2nd gear laying in the sand. I have a Sphynx built by K&T(not my first choice) but I bought it 2nd hand. Gonna run Pwk 40.5 and LED 350G pipe. I had 2 Pumas 1 built by Pete and 1 built by Packard. Those 2 are the only ones I'd use for a CPI Cylinder.
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Arlen would be good too. Along with one of his pipes. Complete package
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I have one of Arlen's 363's, it rocks. It's the only cpi cyl that I've had though. It's not a great overrev motor, but it sure has pull. If you ride long steep hills it would work great. Pulling third or fourth for a long time makes for a good climber.
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Thanks for all the quick response, its appreciated... I would definitely like to have a bullet proof transmission and bottom end, I'm open to all possibilities on builders and love to hear input... Pete would be top list if Neil is out of the question but I'm also open to Arlen.... My main objective would be reliability first and 450 destroyer coming in a very close second haha... I'm running a ported 89 250r with 38 air Stryker, esr cage and reeds, billet intake etc bunch of little things and hang and run down some nice 450s but as we all know we ALWAYS need more... Would Pete be able to build everything start to finish, meaning I send him my motor and he orders what I need or should I order parts and send everything to him.... Obviously its best to just talk to him or whoever said builder should be, but just tryin to get a feel for what's going to need doing.... What should I be lookin to spend on tho build, I'm sure 3000 plus is in the cards? Thanks again btw I just sold my banshee to build my girl haha...
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Neil has done a good amount of CPI cylinders, including a couple Pumas I think. I would definitely try to contact him and gather his thoughts.
I run a full Baldwin trans in my 350, rock solid and shifts like butter. LED 350G pipe, 38mm PWK. I would think you'd use at least a 40mm for a mid-top build though
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Thanks for all the quick response, its appreciated... I would definitely like to have a bullet proof transmission and bottom end, I'm open to all possibilities on builders and love to hear input... Pete would be top list if Neil is out of the question but I'm also open to Arlen.... My main objective would be reliability first and 450 destroyer coming in a very close second haha... I'm running a ported 89 250r with 38 air Stryker, esr cage and reeds, billet intake etc bunch of little things and hang and run down some nice 450s but as we all know we ALWAYS need more... Would Pete be able to build everything start to finish, meaning I send him my motor and he orders what I need or should I order parts and send everything to him.... Obviously its best to just talk to him or whoever said builder should be, but just tryin to get a feel for what's going to need doing.... What should I be lookin to spend on tho build, I'm sure 3000 plus is in the cards? Thanks again btw I just sold my banshee to build my girl haha...
Yes that's how he did my last sphinx before I jumped into a puma. Give him a yell that last motor I had pulled extremely hard and if you look through my build thread you can see the difference in a sphinx to a puma and some of the pipes.
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[MENTION=335]C-Leigh Racing[/MENTION]..
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I bought skean1 hybrid Sphinx motor and can tell you it is a beast. Great top and mid but still has bottom end as well. Hydrid would be good option for you.
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id send it to Pete at Hybrid, Neil is more of a MX guy and not sure how much he's done with CPI cylinders. Don't short on the bottom end and transmission. Do it rite the first time, it's not fun looking down and seeing pieces of 2nd gear laying in the sand. I have a Sphynx built by K&T(not my first choice) but I bought it 2nd hand. Gonna run Pwk 40.5 and LED 350G pipe. I had 2 Pumas 1 built by Pete and 1 built by Packard. Those 2 are the only ones I'd use for a CPI Cylinder.
I wouldn't say mx by no mean...Neil (Neil Pritchard),(c-Leigh) has done 4 engines/ cylinders for me.. his engines perform a certain way... like a signature of him speaking through his work or something ..and he can defiantly do what a customer asks for.... I'm not sure but I think I have the only cp cylinder Neil will ever do from what he said..And it's not cause he can't because my puma mid range ported was 51 ft pounds of torque and 71hp on the last dyno pull, way rich no smaller jets to lean out and make another pull . It's blowed out Arlen's billet gears and a set of oem cryo treated,magna flux,micro polished gears as well on a tt track .we all know trannys are a problem..This not a drag cylinder was not looking to squeeze ever ounce out of it..it was built for torque and pull and it's exactly what I ordered... Neil don't like building the cp stuff do to cost. He likes the 2 stoke to be cheap to fix and build and not rob the customer out of thousands like a 4 poke does... I'm sure he will slide in here soon..cp stuff is just so costly to build and time consuming with shipping and all the stuff that comes with these cylinders,but as stated many excellent builders out ther for cp cylinders...
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My hybrid engineering Sphinx pulled a jerry hall and klemm lt 500 by a quad length. The jerry hall 500 was dyno'd at 75hp on Jerrys dyno. Petes motors pull hard.
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[MENTION=335]C-Leigh Racing[/MENTION]..
I believe that it might be the other Neil some of you are thinking about. Cant remember his last name, but he does a lot of drag stuff like Pete does. Was a member the other day asking about him, he hadnt seen or heard from him in a while & was wondering what was up.
kb250r is correct, he has the 1 & only CPI cylinder I'll ever touch.
My reason, I've been in 2 strokes for many years & as I went through those years, I got gut feeling on how some things operated & some things produced I just didnt have a good feeling about it. Its kinda like all these new 4 pokers, has something to do with it, by them being so high priced off the floor & for parts & up keep.
When you design a 2 stroke product, your not dealing with the main stream everyday used type of machines sitting on the show room floor, so consideration needs to be made for who it might be will use your products.
With our ol 250Rs, the price of some of these things produced today, the moneys just not there from the regular consumer. Granted there are some owners with deep pockets, but it is a slim few. So, why produce a product that will take every penny a regular person has.
Now I'm not knocking the CPI stuff in any way, I consider it to the highest quality you can buy, but, how many ways can you design a 2 stroke cylinder & make it into something never ever produced any years before it. There are some projects out there though, that are breaking new ground in design. In the end though, they will probably be in the to high priced range for many to afford.
With the 4 pokes on the market today & the parts offered, high as they are, it sets a sight that some will try to match up to & it just cant be, not for a 2 stroke world of today.
Getting back on the transmissions, any of the hollow OEM gears in the TRX250R transmission will be the failing point of all of them. There may be some stock Rs transmissions out there that are holding up, but if you really check into them close, they are probably not binding those rear tires up grabbing every inch of traction they can get. Check out just about any drag quad, long swingarm & real high speed wheel spin. You bind a quad down, short swingarm like in TT racing, placing those rear tires close as you can under that riders butt & your hunting for all the traction you can find to push that rider & quad forward. Wheel spin in TT racing, = going to the back of the pack.
Out of all that, you can see the strain on all those gears & the job that they have to do & stay alive.
If all the gears were solid, wider & thicker, they probably could stand a lot more HP thrown to them, but what most of us have, old, beat up & weak, we are lucky any of them are still in the cases on the first pull or lap.
kb250r racing his trike in TT, after the build, busted a set of checked close for cracks, cryo hardened, back cut & polished gears. Next he got the ones LED offers & busted those, so what is a 250R owner to do. It does look like the Baldwin gears over the years must be the best, but I have no clue who produced them.
Neil
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Jerry hall(HPR) out of Glendale, az is great with two strokes. I don't think he's built too many cpi cylinders tho. Give Pete or him a call your be good.
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I believe that it might be the other Neil some of you are thinking about. Cant remember his last name, but he does a lot of drag stuff like Pete does. Was a member the other day asking about him, he hadnt seen or heard from him in a while & was wondering what was up.
I posted this question asking about Neil & Saber Racing:
http://trx250r.org/threads/7023-What-Ever-Happened-to-Neil-Saber-Racing (http://trx250r.org/threads/7023-What-Ever-Happened-to-Neil-Saber-Racing)
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I believe that it might be the other Neil some of you are thinking about. Cant remember his last name, but he does a lot of drag stuff like Pete does. Was a member the other day asking about him, he hadnt seen or heard from him in a while & was wondering what was up.
kb250r is correct, he has the 1 & only CPI cylinder I'll ever touch.
My reason, I've been in 2 strokes for many years & as I went through those years, I got gut feeling on how some things operated & some things produced I just didnt have a good feeling about it. Its kinda like all these new 4 pokers, has something to do with it, by them being so high priced off the floor & for parts & up keep.
When you design a 2 stroke product, your not dealing with the main stream everyday used type of machines sitting on the show room floor, so consideration needs to be made for who it might be will use your products.
With our ol 250Rs, the price of some of these things produced today, the moneys just not there from the regular consumer. Granted there are some owners with deep pockets, but it is a slim few. So, why produce a product that will take every penny a regular person has.
Now I'm not knocking the CPI stuff in any way, I consider it to the highest quality you can buy, but, how many ways can you design a 2 stroke cylinder & make it into something never ever produced any years before it. There are some projects out there though, that are breaking new ground in design. In the end though, they will probably be in the to high priced range for many to afford.
With the 4 pokes on the market today & the parts offered, high as they are, it sets a sight that some will try to match up to & it just cant be, not for a 2 stroke world of today.
Getting back on the transmissions, any of the hollow OEM gears in the TRX250R transmission will be the failing point of all of them. There may be some stock Rs transmissions out there that are holding up, but if you really check into them close, they are probably not binding those rear tires up grabbing every inch of traction they can get. Check out just about any drag quad, long swingarm & real high speed wheel spin. You bind a quad down, short swingarm like in TT racing, placing those rear tires close as you can under that riders butt & your hunting for all the traction you can find to push that rider & quad forward. Wheel spin in TT racing, = going to the back of the pack.
Out of all that, you can see the strain on all those gears & the job that they have to do & stay alive.
If all the gears were solid, wider & thicker, they probably could stand a lot more HP thrown to them, but what most of us have, old, beat up & weak, we are lucky any of them are still in the cases on the first pull or lap.
kb250r racing his trike in TT, after the build, busted a set of checked close for cracks, cryo hardened, back cut & polished gears. Next he got the ones LED offers & busted those, so what is a 250R owner to do. It does look like the Baldwin gears over the years must be the best, but I have no clue who produced them.
Neil
Neil it sounds like Nate is going to do the billet transmission again.
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Neil it sounds like Nate is going to do the billet transmission again.
Nate will need to front all the money before Bob will make them again.
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Neil it sounds like Nate is going to do the billet transmission again.
Hes had pretty good results with those best I can remember.
Neil
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I posted this question asking about Neil & Saber Racing:
http://trx250r.org/threads/7023-What-Ever-Happened-to-Neil-Saber-Racing (http://trx250r.org/threads/7023-What-Ever-Happened-to-Neil-Saber-Racing)
Thats who I was thinking, couldnt remember everything though. If I remember right, was he MP Racing on Mac Dizzy.
Neil
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There are more billet gears being made right now, with oval windows in gears instead of square he told me all the upgrade details but it's been a while,if there no done already,they maybe ready.... Kody at Schorr is got the ball on this one ...contact Kody for more info
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Nate at this time is not going forward with having the billet gears made. Other then that what is going on with Cody I'm not sure. [MENTION=1576]markis02[/MENTION]
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They are in the making. There has been a medical issue come up and put us two weeks behind. But I assure you they will be coming soon.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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I always liked the idea of needle bearings instead of bushings under the gears. was this a consideration with the new batch ?
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When these billet gears are done being made are they going to be advertised in any way on here B/c I want a set or 2 and just don't want to miss them
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How much does a set of these fears cost?
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I will post on here as soon as I have them in my hands. Thank you
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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Sorry been a very busy weekend, but thanks everyone for the input... Thanks for the response Neil I surely appreciate your very knowledgeable information... I surely don't have the deep pockets and that's the main reason I wanted cpi cylinder, and a bulletproof bottom end... From my research esr, and pro x have water jacket issues, so instead of chasing gremlins down with there products and putting new top ends on, etc itd seem the logical thinking would be build it right the first time or waste alot of money wishing you had.... I could be wrong and maybe esr, pro x have there issues figured out and would appreciate input in that area... With that said I'm strongly concerned with the transmission situation as being my weakest link in the build, hopefully we have some good aftermarket ones in the near future... My main reason for going sphynx over puma was the transmission reliability... I'm lookin for a strong 65hp and would like to believe I could do that without destroying gears... I look forward to all the information I can get... Thanks again
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If you don't have deep pockets stay away form cp cylinders and there are no bulletproof 250r bottem ends trust me it cost me $1000 dollars ever time I popped a gear...!!! I have had 2 Esr cylinder going on a 3rd and all run A+.. I'm a tt racer I don't cut no slack either !! .lol...It's all in builder and set up...noting wrong with Esr or prox cylinders.....
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Thanks everyone for the input, I have alot to consider.... My biggest concern is the transmission, hopefully its something that can be sorted out.... Thanks 250r brothers
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You should do a esr 363 with a solid bottem end , cr ignition, 38-41.5 carb, big bore pipe!! I sent neil
my esr350 and man it hauls!! I asked for an all around porting and was thinkin it was goin to be mostly low to midrange, which believe me was really snappy down low.. I had a +4 swingarm on there and the wheels would lift really easy!! And quickly!! But man i was shocked when riding wide open for long strethes, my quad was pulling really modded banshee's in 6th pinned like they were outta gas!! When we would stop after what seemed like forever, all the banshee guys were asking me what all was done to my bike??? Lol. Plus not alot of ppl see the trx250r anymore where i ride!! Everybody wants to see and ask about it. I guess 4 strokes are easier or somethin idk.. Neil helped me every step of the way and answered all my questions!! Id stay with your first choice no matter the build!! Neils work can easliy be found on the websites!! No complaints that i have found and very respected by those who ride out on an engine he built
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[MENTION=9]Pumashine[/MENTION] ask him how long a stock transmission lasts he's running them in Pumas and Pilots, I'm running a stock cyroed transmission in my puma as well.
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[MENTION=9]Pumashine[/MENTION] ask him how long a stock transmission lasts he's running them in Pumas and Pilots, I'm running a stock cyroed transmission in my puma as well.
Nothing is going to keep 2nd from breaking if you cannot shift correctly. A back cut on first or second will help starting in that gear. I have been running stock trannies on all three 400+cc motors without a problem for 5 years.
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Me to.... stock tranny was working fine.... Till 2nd shattered and ruined the rest of the gears. :) lol. :)
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I've always used second as my 1st. Never had a problem. All my r trans r plated and back cut tho.
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Nothing is going to keep 2nd from breaking if you cannot shift correctly.
That is so true. It kills me to read some guys go on and on about hardly ever never using the clutch when giving advice to those asking questions and wanting to learn. The clutch lever is your friend and an amazing tool available for you to learn to use in more ways then just dead stop leaving camp or the starting line and it is also good for your engine. Highly skilled and very fast riders touch that clutch lever a LOT more then a lot of people think.
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Only time I had an issue, knock on wood, was landing a jump once. Third gear shattered when I landed the jump. I was barely on the throttle too. Then I decided to ride it in instead of getting a tow. Big mistake! All the fragments did a lot of damage. Expensive fix. Cases were okay though.