TRX250R.ORG
Workshop => Suspension and Chassis => Topic started by: Morse250r on March 31, 2016, 06:58:52 AM
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engine, carrier ect ! what's the thoughts or place to find them ?
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I always wanted to try these:
http://www.microblueracing.com/
john
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World Wide bearings is where some racers get them. I don't use ceramic bearings
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ESR sell ceramic main bearings.
http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/product_p/ceramic-mainbearings.htm (http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/product_p/ceramic-mainbearings.htm)
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why would you want ceramic bearings? i understand there a low coefficient of friction but damn there expensive!
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I looked into for my Ziggy build. It is $$$$ for them. Plus I plan on this bike running at the dunes and hills. Ceramics do not like dirt getting past the seals.
My next build will be track only and I will look into it more then.
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I like the Micro blue idea myself. Cool stuff.
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Word on the street is its not a good idea to use them in two stroke motor
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I can think of a lot of other areas to spend money on a engine package that would yield much larger gains than what would be spent on the microscopic gains obtained from ceramic bearings.
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I can think of a lot of other areas to spend money on a engine package that would yield much larger gains than what would be spent on the microscopic gains obtained from ceramic bearings.
You are on the same page as me. Example...REM
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A few examples
Chassis
A guy buys ceramic bearings and then installs an o-ring chain.
A guy buys ceramic bearings but will not oil his chain every moto.
A guy buys ceramic bearings and installs an outer ware lid on his air box.
A guy buys ceramic bearings and has a brake rotor that is wavy.
A guy buys ceramic bearings and then runs his tires a few psi low.
A guy buys ceramic bearings but his chain is rubbing a slightly miss-aligned chain guide.
Engine
A guy buys ceramic bearings but installs the wrong pipe or silencer for his porting because he got a deal on the exhaust.
A guy buys ceramic bearings and is one or more main jets off.
A guy bought a well developed engine package but installs the wrong dome so that he can run pump gas.
A guy buys ceramic bearings but does not run have his air scoops installed correctly and the engine runs 10 deg warmer than it could.
Both list can go on and on. My point I am trying to make is: I would not spend the money on ceramic bearings unless you have done everything possible to maximize all the other areas of the engine that are responsible for producing power and reduce all other areas where parasitic losses can be minimized.
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I agree they are a lot of money, but im at the point im buying ti bolts. there isn't much left to do on my bike its under 200lbs .. I was thinking more in the carrier area too ?
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I agree they are a lot of money, but im at the point im buying ti bolts. there isn't much left to do on my bike its under 200lbs .. I was thinking more in the carrier area too ?
That's a good place to loose weight 😉
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If u look into it u will find that most ceramic bearings are hybrid style, steel cage, ceramic balls. With that being said jerry hit it right on the head, lots more performance benefits in minimizing rolling resistance/drag. Titanium is cheap relatively speaking when u start talking full ceramic bearings. U will also find that u cannot get every engine bearing in ceramic, so that defeats the purpose. Ceramic also still use a steel cage riveted together and do not like any contaminants cause or tight tolerances. With that being said I would use them on spindle mounted front wheels with titanium nut and cotter pin, only because it's easy to check and that's going to be popular/inexpensive size to run. My to cents, I'd rather REM the internals, way more gains per cost.
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there isn't much left to do on my bike its under 200lbs .. I was thinking more in the carrier area too ?
That's a good place to loose weight ��
I'd start loosing it off my gut at that point!
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I also use all titanium and aluminum hardware on my drag bikes. I don't leave anything on the table when it comes to racing
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Going from all steel bolts to all titanium bolts and screws on one of the old Kawasaki Works Motocross bikes saved us less than 1.5 pounds at a cost of around $2000.00
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Jerry, have you kept up with the current drag bikes? People have showed up with no brakes.
Tabata can machine that carrier for ya.
John I was thinking about where there is more weight to loose, do you know of anyone opening up the inner diameter on the axles.
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Here is some ATV race components I have machined https://www.instagram.com/jtmachining/
Rupp I don't recommend machining the axle ID more than 19mm. I'm sure if I went over your set up I could find areas to drop lbs. For example, I typically can machine about a pound off a billet carrier
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Going from all steel bolts to all titanium bolts and screws on one of the old Kawasaki Works Motocross bikes saved us less than 1.5 pounds at a cost of around $2000.00
so the total weight of the bikes bolts were approximately 2.8 lbs? titanium is about 40% lighter so i find it very hard to believe that statement is true. care to elaborate?
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I know I save more than 3lbs using all titanium and aluminum hardware. This doesn't even include the machined lighter components and titanium tube/plate components
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I do not remember the total weight of all of the screws, bolts, axles, suspension pivots etc around 1980. I just remember we were disappointed at the cost and the 1.5lbs of weight saved.
What is the weight of all of the steel bolts and screws on a modern two-stroke mx bike?
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i have a full bike stainless bolt kit still in the bag in my garage for a tri-z i am doing a ground up on for a guy, weighs pry 10lbs at least? maybe a bit more.
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Steel bolts and suspension pivot pins were used in areas requiring high strength. The majority of the 6mm screws on the chassis (side panel screws seat bolts, fender bolts.) were aluminum. Aluminum 6mm screws were used on the engine for clutch cover and ignition cover bolts
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saving mass (or changing its location) is easier than trying to reduce internal engine friction.
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saving mass (or changing its location) is easier than trying to reduce internal engine friction.
Cheaper is a diet
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(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/67_7497_2017-04-18_7199.jpg)Ceramic isn't for the masses, nor is ti. But to those that already have those things, it most certainly is worth it. When you drop 10g on a ti chassis, you sure af don't put steel bolts in it.
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(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/67_7497_2017-04-18_5523.jpg)Ceramic isn't for the masses, nor is ti. But to those that already have those things, it most certainly is worth it. When you drop 10g on a ti chassis, you sure af don't put steel bolts in it.
^ Nice rail. :onthego: This ends the debate. As Jerry said, once you perfect all components, then you will see the benefits. :victorious: