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Workshop => Engine and Bottom End => Topic started by: flynbyu on April 28, 2016, 12:15:08 PM

Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: flynbyu on April 28, 2016, 12:15:08 PM
Hi guys...with the high cost and limited availability of race fuels in my area I have been thinking about maybe using an octane booster.  Eddie Sanders and I were just talking about this on Tuesday and I was mentioning Lucas oils makes a octane booster that has many good reviews on their website. Lucas Oils has been around a long time and they seem to be on the forefront with their products. Wondering if anybody has used any specific brand octane booster and what are your thoughts.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on April 28, 2016, 01:01:42 PM
Amsoil has it too but IMHO it's all smoke and mirrors. Your better off with race fuel. It also does not have ethanal which is a big plus too
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: JesseA420 on April 28, 2016, 02:21:29 PM
what did eddie say
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on April 28, 2016, 02:33:06 PM
Yea Id like to know too lol. I'd really be surprised if he said it was good to use
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: broken1 on April 28, 2016, 03:15:29 PM
If race gas isn't readily available in your area it might be better to turn it down a little & just run non-eth super.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Morse250r on April 28, 2016, 07:54:57 PM
I just picked up the klotz additive for a trail ride trip where race fuel isn't an option
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Skeans1 on April 28, 2016, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: flynbyu;67055
Hi guys...with the high cost and limited availability of race fuels in my area I have been thinking about maybe using an octane booster.  Eddie Sanders and I were just talking about this on Tuesday and I was mentioning Lucas oils makes a octane booster that has many good reviews on their website. Lucas Oils has been around a long time and they seem to be on the forefront with their products. Wondering if anybody has used any specific brand octane booster and what are your thoughts.

Sounds like snake oil to me http://http://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Snake-Oil-Cures-All.jpeg (http://http://sherpablog.marketingsherpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Snake-Oil-Cures-All.jpeg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/463_7657_2017-04-18_6927.jpg)
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Aceman on April 28, 2016, 09:13:57 PM
Do you have an airport in your area?  My boss has his own airplane and said if I wanted I could purchase 100LL from the pumps at the airport.  I'd much rather run that than some additive you add to your gas tank.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: flynbyu on April 29, 2016, 11:09:37 AM
So Skeans1 what you are saying that all octane boosters are a scam? I can't believe everyone that makes an octane booster is scamming people with there products. Eddie Sanders and I both came to the conclusion that maybe its time to start considering using non race fuels with a reputable octane booster. We just have not had experience with using one. My son and I both have 88 R's with the 4 gallon fuel tank and we regularly do a 60-85 mile cross country trail rides with our R's and race gas is not an option. I guess what I am asking is anyone out there running compression much over 180 lbs with 91-93 octane pump gas and an octane booster?
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: JesseA420 on April 29, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: JesseA420;67061
what did eddie say
pls
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Burns363R on April 29, 2016, 11:26:15 AM
Octane boosters are a scam  IMHO.    Why is race gas not an option?
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: jwraymond6 on April 29, 2016, 11:38:20 AM
I was curious on this to because I live in a small town and don't have access to av or race fuel closest town to get it is 240 miles I cant even get pump higher than 91
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on April 29, 2016, 01:19:05 PM
ok if you are set up for race fuel but you can not get race fuel why dont you just down your compression and run pump gas? obviously the octane booster has more negative opinions than positive opinions. imo octane boosters are for kids with ricers that THINK octane booster will net them more power. if octane booster worked why would there still be a market for actual race fuel? with the purchase of pump gas and a few bucks for octane booster it would probably still be at half the cost of more than race fuel and much easier to get over tracking down the few places that do carry it. amsoil sells it and they say it will increase UP TO 4 points. so regular 91 octane pump gas will only be raised to 95 in its best case "up to" scenario. thats far from 110 that most motors that are setup for race fuel are run on. even in their description its marketed more as a additive to combat ethanol and lead free gas as apposed to as making pump gas into race gas.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: jwraymond6 on April 29, 2016, 01:22:16 PM
Quote from: dem3500;67087
ok if you are set up for race fuel but you can not get race fuel why dont you just down your compression and run pump gas? obviously the octane booster has more negative opinions than positive opinions. imo octane boosters are for kids with ricers that THINK octane booster will net them more power. if octane booster worked why would there still be a market for actual race fuel? with the purchase of pump gas and a few bucks for octane booster it would probably still be at half the cost of more than race fuel and much easier to get over tracking down the few places that do carry it. amsoil sells it and they say it will increase UP TO 4 points. so regular 91 octane pump gas will only be raised to 95 in its best case "up to" scenario. thats far from 110 that most motors that are setup for race fuel are run on. even in their description its marketed more as a additive to combat ethanol and lead free gas as apposed to as making pump gas into race gas.
I'm not set up to run race fuel because of the fact I can't get it with out making a 8hr round trip out of town

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on April 29, 2016, 01:28:36 PM
Quote from: jwraymond6;67088
I'm not set up to run race fuel because of the fact I can't get it with out making a 8hr round trip out of town

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

ok then why do you want to use octane booster? im a little confused now.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: jwraymond6 on April 29, 2016, 01:29:54 PM
Quote from: dem3500;67089
ok then why do you want to use octane booster? im a little confused now.
If I was to switch is why I asked

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on April 29, 2016, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: jwraymond6;67090
If I was to switch is why I asked

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

ahh ok gotcha
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: swanitalia on April 29, 2016, 03:09:45 PM
Is there a airport near you? I run avgas in all my bikes.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: jwraymond6 on April 29, 2016, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: swanitalia;67105
Is there a airport near you? I run avgas in all my bikes.
The little airport in my town is closed

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Troy on April 29, 2016, 03:18:56 PM
Buy it by the drum, then your good for a while.  Or maybe you can get it shipped to your door in 5 gal. Pale.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: thesmith87250r on April 29, 2016, 03:27:08 PM
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/racing-fuel  its better to buy in bulk  !
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Burns363R on April 29, 2016, 04:48:46 PM
I buy race fuel 55gal drum at a time.  Cheaper than buying by the gallon, and its always at home.  Im supprised more guys dont do this.  Barrell of sunnoco 114 is good for a couple years in cool dark areas. aka garage.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Skeans1 on April 29, 2016, 05:24:57 PM
Quote from: Burns363R;67116
I buy race fuel 55gal drum at a time.  Cheaper than buying by the gallon, and its always at home.  Im supprised more guys dont do this.  Barrell of sunnoco 114 is good for a couple years in cool dark areas. aka garage.

One of thing I know about drum storage make sure they aren't left on the ground or on concrete best to use a pallet to put the drums on.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Burns363R on April 29, 2016, 05:58:33 PM
Unless you have a climate controlled shop.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: broken1 on April 29, 2016, 06:13:11 PM
If the drums are sitting on concrete theres still a temperature difference in a climate controlled shop unless you have floor heat. That temperature difference is what causes sweating & that leads to water in the fuel.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: jcs003 on April 29, 2016, 08:04:53 PM
Quote from: thesmith87250r;67108
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/racing-fuel  its better to buy in bulk  !

that is a huge savings.  how do you guys get it in those quantities?

John
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: thesmith87250r on April 29, 2016, 08:22:55 PM
Order it up an they will respond with a shipping an handling  quote.  The vp place is near me in deleware bout  40 min. That's where my buddies with racecars go an one friend became a dealer for a while
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Aceman on April 30, 2016, 10:04:46 AM
Those prices don't seem that great too me?  I know this isn't the norm, but our local gas station sells VP110 straight out of the pump for $8.xx/gallon.  That site lists C12 at $11.87/gallon for a 54 gallon drum.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Skeans1 on April 30, 2016, 10:28:36 AM
Quote from: Aceman;67133
Those prices don't seem that great too me?  I know this isn't the norm, but our local gas station sells VP110 straight out of the pump for $8.xx/gallon.  That site lists C12 at $11.87/gallon for a 54 gallon drum.

Same here but it's Sunoco 110 most of the oil company have a race gas pump on hand or most race tracks do as well.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: JesseA420 on April 30, 2016, 01:04:41 PM
ya i pay less per gallon at the local circle track shop than those prices are per 54 gallon drum direct from vp.
i pay $10.50 per gallon for vp110 and thats just hand pumped out of said drum, a 54 gallon drum on that link is $614 = $11.37 per gallon, not including freight :\


i wish we had a gas station with a race gas pump here!
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Skeans1 on April 30, 2016, 01:42:05 PM
Quote from: JesseA420;67135
ya i pay less per gallon at the local circle track shop than those prices are per 54 gallon drum direct from vp.
i pay $10.50 per gallon for vp110 and thats just hand pumped out of said drum, a 54 gallon drum on that link is $614 = $11.37 per gallon, not including freight :\


i wish we had a gas station with a race gas pump here!

Find the local oil supplier Jesse they are the ones that bring in the gas to the track ect.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Burns363R on May 01, 2016, 09:50:48 AM
54 gal of sunnoco 114 only costs me 9.50 a gallon.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: F-Red on May 01, 2016, 10:06:10 AM
Quote from: JesseA420;67135
i wish we had a gas station with a race gas pump here!

Like this? My local race track. Pull up, fill up. $8.50 for either blend. Love it.

(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/Random%20Pics/null_zps257acab7.png)
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: F-Red on May 01, 2016, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: JesseA420;67135

i wish we had a gas station with a race gas pump here!


Like this? My local race track. Pull up, fill up. $8.50 for either blend. Love it.

(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/Random%20Pics/null_zps257acab7.png)
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: broken1 on May 01, 2016, 11:29:23 AM
Theres pumps like that at my local oil supplier. VP110 for 9/gal. The local bike shop wants 11/gal for the same thing out of a barrel.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: JesseA420 on May 01, 2016, 07:46:05 PM
the sunoco pumps at our track are out in the pits. i havent looked into it but i dont think anyone other than racers can go out and buy.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on May 01, 2016, 07:50:11 PM
110 by me out of the pump is $8.50
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: 2SMOKE on May 01, 2016, 08:17:57 PM
Quote from: dem3500;67159
110 by me out of the pump is $8.50
Is the the tank above ground?
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: dem3500 on May 01, 2016, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: 2SMOKE;67160
Is the the tank above ground?
I think so.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: 2SMOKE on May 01, 2016, 08:36:35 PM
Quote from: dem3500;67161
I think so.[/QUOTE I was worried about water getting in the gas from our wonderful Michigan weather. Condensation and all. Not sure how long it's been sitting. They have 110 for around the same price. $8.50 by me.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Jerry Hall on May 02, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
I have not had good detonation protection using currently marketed octane boosters.  Years ago there were two octane booster Moroso and Vortex that would raise the motored octane level well over 5 points.  The problem with these two octane boosters was that it cost more to treat a gallon of pump gas than it cost for a gallon of race gas.  I think that the EPA made them take it off of the market.  

There are a lot of octane boosters that will raise the research octane level 3 or 4 points but engines do not seem to respond to increases in research numbers like they do to the increases in the motored octane numbers.

I have used thousands of gallons of 100LL Avgas over the years with two strokes with good results.  I usually mix 1 gallon of premium pump gas to 4 to 5 gallons of AVgas.  The pump gas insures the two stroke oil stays mixed and often will make a little more power than straight AVgas.  It does not seem to matter if the pump gas is ethanol free.  The small amount of ethanol gives the fuel the ability to absorb condensation and distribute the water homogeneously throughout the fuel preventing your engine from stalling or misfiring when it ingest small slugs of pure water.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Jerry Hall on May 02, 2016, 11:17:58 AM
Quote from: 2SMOKE;67162
Quote from: dem3500;67161
I think so.[/QUOTE I was worried about water getting in the gas from our wonderful Michigan weather. Condensation and all. Not sure how long it's been sitting. They have 110 for around the same price. $8.50 by me.

If the pump is removed from the drum and sealed with the airtight bung after every fuel transfer, condensation is not usually a problem.  A drum of fuel will keep for years if the bung used is completely airtight.   Do not buy fuel from anyone that leaves the pump in the drum all of the time unless they sell the drum of fuel in a couple of days.  Race gas stored in a container that is vented, (your fuel tank on the bike, a plastic gas jug of any kind or a 55 gallon drum with the pump left in it) looses the light components of the fuel very quickly reducing the detonation protection and heating value of the fuel.
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: troybilt on May 02, 2016, 11:33:02 AM
Some of the old schoolers might remember Toluene used as an octane booster.  It was used in Formula1 years ago.  There are octane boosters that are real!  

http://www.worldofchemicals.com/428/chemistry-articles/toluene-additive-for-racing-fuels-fuel-octane-booster.html

However, I wouldn't run it in my stuff... LOL!  VP for me, the midwest distributor for VP fuels is my neighbor...  =handy!
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: Aceman on May 02, 2016, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: troybilt;67183
Some of the old schoolers might remember Toluene used as an octane booster.  It was used in Formula1 years ago.  There are octane boosters that are real!  

http://www.worldofchemicals.com/428/chemistry-articles/toluene-additive-for-racing-fuels-fuel-octane-booster.html

However, I wouldn't run it in my stuff... LOL!  VP for me, the midwest distributor for VP fuels is my neighbor...  =handy!

He probably likes the sound of your quad starting up then=more money for him!!
Title: Octane Boosters
Post by: jto1 on July 12, 2016, 10:01:15 AM
Not all octane boosters do much, only raise octane by a few points, not actual octane numbers. Take 91 octane, add a bottle of octane boosters, you will get a number like 91.6.
 That being said if you want to actually raise octane,  you need tel, only real way to raise octane levels.
http://www.hi-flow.com/hp016os.html
Here is a lead additive that works.