TRX250R.ORG
General => Projects => Topic started by: rablack21 on June 01, 2016, 09:20:38 AM
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As most of you know, my motor blew up in April while I was at a race. I have posted some of the pictures, but not all in one place. So it's time to do a thread!
Here are the pics of my dearly departed 363 stroker motor.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7615_2017-04-18_4431.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7831_2017-04-18_2182.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7616_2017-04-18_6871.jpg)
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7833_2017-04-18_5372.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7618_2017-04-18_5936.jpg)
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7617_2017-04-18_5709.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7619_2017-04-18_6495.jpg)
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I'm calling this motor "the Pheonix". It seems fitting since this new motor is rising from the ashes of the old one. During the old engine blow apart, the cases, piston, cylinder, and crank were destroyed. Only the transmission and the clutch components left unscathed. So, starting from scratch, I ordered brand new cases from ESR, brand new 350cc ESR cylinder, and got a new stroker crank from Hot Rods.
Here are pics of some of the parts. I just got the bottom end back from my engine builder yesterday. I will post those pics once I get a chance to take a couple. I am very happy with how the ESR cases looks. I also purchased a new chrome LED 350G pipe and silencer.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7832_2017-04-18_8070.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7834_2017-04-18_9538.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7835_2017-04-18_5697.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7836_2017-04-18_8134.jpg)
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every time i see that connecting rod i cringe a bit
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every time i see that connecting rod i cringe a bit
Wha????? It's only asking a question. LOL
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Send it to Carlos at bdt he'll set you up with some big horsepower
Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk
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Looks like a great start Ryan. Those cases are sweet! Pics of the pipe please!
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Almost what I was going to do. Then came across some OEM cases and rebuilding. Did you call and talk to Eddie. Which height cases are those and is the cylinder setup for the 4mm?
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Looks like a great start Ryan. Those cases are sweet! Pics of the pipe please!
I'll will try to take tonight.
Almost what I was going to do. Then came across some OEM cases and rebuilding. Did you call and talk to Eddie. Which height cases are those and is the cylinder setup for the 4mm?
Yeah, I called Eddie and talked to him. I sent him an email, and he usually calls me back within a few hours. I got the plus .210 height. I got that so I wouldn't have to run the spacer plate anymore, but I could still run a standard crank if I so desired later. I did get the tall cylinder for the stroker setup though. I also ordered a blank dome. I sent the cylinder, piston, and blank dome to Bubba Ramsey for porting, boring, and machining a new dome. Eddie is a life saver. He helped me out a great deal. Can't say enough about the guy!
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Was the crank the culprit for the explosion? Was it trued and/or welded?
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Good to see your rising above the ashes. It's only money, right Ryan? :stung:
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Was the crank the culprit for the explosion? Was it trued and/or welded?
Yep. The crank is trued from the factory, but the tins are not welded. The upper part of the crank rod pulled apart.
Good to see your rising above the ashes. It's only money, right Ryan? :stung:
It's only money, but my arse sure is sore. I had to reach deep up in there to pull the money out to fix this. This better stay together. I can handle a seized piston. A full motor replacement....no. If it had taken out my Yukon gears as well. I might have just hung up my boots. lol.
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Glad to see your excited about new build. Cases look sweet. Keep us informed on build. I'm curious how ESR cylinder runs compared to Sphynx.
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Sorry miss read. Your just replacing ESR cylinder a new one.
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Was that a stock rod or was the end clearanced?
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Was that a stock rod or was the end clearanced?
It was a HotRods 4mm stroker crank and rod, kit 4107. I used the "tall" cylinder from ESR and had the cases clearanced for the stroker.
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Was the crank the culprit for the explosion? Was it trued and/or welded?
Truing and welding the crank will not prevent this type of failure. This type of failure is related to: cross-section too small at point of failure, heat treat, type of material or pilot error.
This is not the first time I have seen this type of failure at the small end of the rod.
A 250 piston assembly (piston, rings, pin, bearing and clips) usually weighs in at around 300 gm. A 330-350 piston assembly usually weighs in around 350 to 380 gm.
I personally believe that the connecting rods (OEM, Hot Rod and the other aftermarket rods) were not designed to carry the loads that can be placed on these rods with big bore pistons with the current cylinder and pipe technology of some good engine builders.
The additional weight of a big bore piston and the increase in acceleration produced by adding 4mm to the stroke, increases the tension in the connecting rod over 25% at 9000 RPM over the original design intent.
Missing a shift, or down shifting when an up shift was intended can easily send the RPM well over 10,000 RPM.
The additional weight of a big bore piston and the increase in acceleration produced by a 4mm stroker, increases the tension in the connecting rod over 40% at 10,000 RPM over the original design intent.
We used the OEM CR250 Con Rods to rebuild the TRX 250 R cranks when they were still available. The OEM CR250 rods had a thicker cross-section everywhere as compared to the TRX 250R OEM rods and never broke in the 250 shifter kart engines that we use to build that spent a lot of time above 10,000 RPM.
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Wow, the force necessary to bend a rod like that must be incredible.
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Wow, the force necessary to bend a rod like that must be incredible.
The rod broke first. Then the kinetic energy stored in the rotating components of the engine and drive train, as well the mass of the bike and rider at speed was used to bend the rod after it became detached from the piston.
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The rod broke first. Then the kinetic energy stored in the rotating components of the engine and drive train, as well the mass of the bike and rider at speed was used to bend the rod after it became detached from the piston.
Normally, yes. However, in this case, it was just pure kinetic energy from rotating components. The quad was sitting still when it blew. I was on the starting gate at one of my mx races. It blew right as the gate dropped.
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Looks like a great start Ryan. Those cases are sweet! Pics of the pipe please!
Here ya go Zak.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7845_2017-04-18_6629.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7846_2017-04-18_796.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7847_2017-04-18_8307.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7848_2017-04-18_9631.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_7849_2017-04-18_9495.jpg)
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Damn, that is a bad-ass looking pipe. Is that their 350G model?
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yes it is says so in 2nd post.
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Them pipes are sweet. I have the raw version and let me tell you, what a difference it makes on the big bores.
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I have seen rods turned into spaghetti like that from the cylinder being hydro-locked, that would do that kind of damage to a connecting rod too...
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Sorry to hear about the explosion. Glad ur rebuilding her. Looks like a good start. That pipe is sick. I've been wanting an led engine but very $$$$. Too many toys. Not enough money.
What pipe were u running before?
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Sorry to hear about the explosion. Glad ur rebuilding her. Looks like a good start. That pipe is sick. I've been wanting an led engine but very $$$$. Too many toys. Not enough money.
What pipe were u running before?
You are not kidding! I shed a few tears and drank a few beers after I ordered that pipe and silencer.
I was previously running an ESR TRX 5B pipe. I liked it very well. Wanted to see what this one could do.
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You are not kidding! I shed a few tears and drank a few beers after I ordered that pipe and silencer.
I was previously running an ESR TRX 5B pipe. I liked it very well. Wanted to see what this one could do.
They aren't all that bad Ryan 750 in chrome isn't that bad at all, I was around that price from Matt Shearer for a raw price.
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They aren't all that bad Ryan 750 in chrome isn't that bad at all, I was around that price from Matt Shearer for a raw price.
$800 for the chrome pipe. Shipping and everything was $930. That's a lot of dough. That is among the highest priced pipes of all the manufacturers.
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$800 for the chrome pipe. Shipping and everything was $930. That's a lot of dough. That is among the highest priced pipes of all the manufacturers.
He's showing 550 for a chrome G pipe and 200 for silencer, a hall pipe pipe for a zilla raw was 950 shipped.
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He's showing 550 for a chrome G pipe and 200 for silencer, a hall pipe pipe for a zilla raw was 950 shipped.
My mistake. It wasn't 800 for the pipe by itself. I do know it was $930 with shipping and everything, don't care what his website says. I thought we were discussing 250R pipe prices? The pipe you mentioned is not for a 250R engine. So yes, among 250r pipes, this LED pipe is among the highest.
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My mistake. It wasn't 800 for the pipe by itself. I do know it was $930 with shipping and everything, don't care what his website says. I thought we were discussing 250R pipe prices? The pipe you mentioned is not for a 250R engine. So yes, among 250r pipes, this LED pipe is among the highest.
That's what Jerry charges for a pipe period Ryan is 900 without shipping, if it hadn't of been chromed it wouldn't been as bad either Ryan for a coned pipe you're going to pay good money but they are setup for these bigger motors.
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That's what Jerry charges for a pipe period Ryan is 900 without shipping, if it hadn't of been chromed it wouldn't been as bad either Ryan for a coned pipe you're going to pay good money but they are setup for these bigger motors.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree Jared. What you said doesn't change my opinion that the pipe is very expensive.
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree Jared. What you said doesn't change my opinion that the pipe is very expensive.
It's expensive yes but if you consider all the time it takes and all the argon to tig them up and purge them it's expensive to build one.
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Moving on....
Got a phone call from Bubba Ramsey yesterday evening. He is porting my cylinder and machining a custom dome for me. We went over how I wanted my motor set up. He seems like a pretty cool and knowledgeable guy. Looking forward to seeing how it runs. I was running about 205 psi previously. It will be about 225 psi on the new motor. Should be a nice little bump for bottom end power. He said he would be finished by Wednesday. So I may get it by Friday or Saturday. Won't be too long now! I'll post pics once I get the cylinder back.
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Finally, an update.
I got the motor all buttoned up. I installed it in the frame, though didn't take a pic. I installed the reed cage and boot last night. Also installed the cr 250 ignition and my 14 oz fly wheel weight.
Tonight's agenda is to finish the rest of it.
I got to install the carb, connect the rad hoses, position and mount the exhaust, connect the hydraulic clutch to the motor, install the shrouds and gas tank. And she'll be good to go. Just in time for a race this weekend. It time to finally get back at it. I got a race this weekend at I-40 motocross park. This will be round 7 of the SEQUAD Southern Championship Series.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8000_2017-04-18_7126.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8001_2017-04-18_4778.jpg)
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Very nice. :applouse:
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Man that thing looks nice. You need to bring it to Loretta Lynn's and spank a few 4 strokes this year. Also be sure and get some good video of your race. Always like to see race videos of the R's.
Allen
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Man that thing looks nice. You need to bring it to Loretta Lynn's and spank a few 4 strokes this year. Also be sure and get some good video of your race. Always like to see race videos of the R's.
Allen
Thanks Allen. I'll have my gopro with me for the race on Saturday. Unless something goes wrong, there will be videos and a race report. Made some more progress last night. Got the pipe installed. It was a bit of a booger, but I managed to get it spaced away from the lower radiator hose and the rear lower a-arm mount. Got the radiator and hoses installed. Got the carb and hydraulic clutch hooked up. Washed my 2 air filters and outerwear screen last night.
Tonight, I got to mount the airbox, clamp the silencer to the pipe, mount the fuel tank, and install the shrouds. She should be about good to go then.
I got to find some high temp silcone hose today to clamp the silencer and pipe with. I don't have anything that will clamp the larger diameter stinger.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8002_2017-04-18_8787.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8003_2017-04-18_803.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8004_2017-04-18_7712.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8005_2017-04-18_7081.jpg)
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Thanks Allen. I'll have my gopro with me for the race on Saturday. Unless something goes wrong, there will be videos and a race report. Made some more progress last night. Got the pipe installed. It was a bit of a booger, but I managed to get it spaced away from the lower radiator hose and the rear lower a-arm mount. Got the radiator and hoses installed. Got the carb and hydraulic clutch hooked up. Washed my 2 air filters and outerwear screen last night.
Tonight, I got to mount the airbox, clamp the silencer to the pipe, mount the fuel tank, and install the shrouds. She should be about good to go then.
I got to find some high temp silcone hose today to clamp the silencer and pipe with. I don't have anything that will clamp the larger diameter stinger.
(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8002_2017-04-18_2129.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8003_2017-04-18_1485.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8004_2017-04-18_7904.jpg)(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/100_8005_2017-04-18_4295.jpg)
Ryan not going to solid mount the pipe?
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Not at the moment, no.