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FAQ's & Technical Articles => Techincal Section => Ignition => Topic started by: rsss396 on July 04, 2013, 08:56:42 PM

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 04, 2013, 08:56:42 PM

well I thought I would post some of this info for referance

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/DLRACINGCR250CR125TIMINGGRAPH_zpsd173c2d4.jpg)

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/250rtimingcurves1986-1988.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/graph9.jpg)


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/BDTand2001CR250ampCR125curves_zps9ac5d526.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 04, 2013, 09:00:20 PM

I just want to note that the under 1000-1500rpms on my older graphs may not be exactly right, the graph when you start out at 0 degrees and 0 rpm ramps up to the first whole number.
I kind of lost my notes of exactly when these cdi's turned on but in the case of the new cr125-250 ignitions they turn on and start at 9 degrees of advance.
Sorry for the confusion

Title: Ign maps
Post by: 363 stroker on July 04, 2013, 09:30:22 PM

So the way I read it they all look very similar with the trx falling off the least.  But I am not sure how much effect these slight differences have.

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 05, 2013, 12:05:22 AM

Its really a shoot in the dark, honestly everybody will tell you to run a 01 cr250 but depending on your head and pipe designs any one of these can be the best.
I made the best power with a 2000 cr125 cdi with 1 degree of advance but 2 years ago my best power curve was a 2000 cr250 with 8 degrees of advance.
This is where a dyno is used to fiquire out what your combo wants, dyno's are not to tune your motor it is to test parts that work or do not work with your setup.

Title: Ign maps
Post by: 363 stroker on July 05, 2013, 12:13:02 AM

Well I wanted lights so I held out and waited for this cr250 ignition with lights,  but what showed up looks like a service honda cr500 ignition.  So I asked and was told the same company makes thier cdi's as well.  So I asked if the curve was the same as an 01 cr250 and I was told it is close.  I just dont know enough about this stuff. Maybe I should run it with the stock ignition then bolt this on and see the difference.

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 05, 2013, 06:57:38 AM

Quote from: 363 stroker;612

Well I wanted lights so I held out and waited for this cr250 ignition with lights,  but what showed up looks like a service honda cr500 ignition.  So I asked and was told the same company makes thier cdi's as well.  So I asked if the curve was the same as an 01 cr250 and I was told it is close.  I just dont know enough about this stuff. Maybe I should run it with the stock ignition then bolt this on and see the difference.

If you pay for the shipping round trip I can check it for you and post the results. I normally can get to it within a couple days of receiving it.

Title: Ign maps
Post by: 363 stroker on July 05, 2013, 12:08:29 PM

I will take you up on that.....  Thank you.  pm sent.

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 12:13:33 AM

I want to add these maps to show you the possiabilites with differant cdi boxes yet the same amount of total timing at peak rpm.
If you look at most single cylinder 250-500cc motors in atv's they normally peak around the 8500 rpm mark.
Obviously some are less and other are more and that does not mean they do not rev more but 8500 is usually very close to the peak and the rest is over-rev.
So all these curves meet at 8500 from this while on the dyno you can decide by adjusting the stator plate or changing to another CDI to add or take away timing before and after to create a wider powerband.
Basicly any year CDI, TRX or CR can be adjusted on the dyno at peak rpm to make the exact same HP, but by changing the curve you can build power before and after peak.




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25014DEGREESGRAPH_1_zpse681e098.jpg)





(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25016DEGREESGRAPH_1_zps4e6d84bf.jpg)





(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25018DEGREESGRAPH_1_zps38d8d404.jpg)





(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR125-25020DEGREESGRAPH_1_zpsa2cf4bd8.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 12:26:14 AM

Just want to add that 2002-2003 CR125 cdi need to have a external grounded kill switch circuit, the 00-01 ground internally in the CDI.
If you do not add a ground then the kill circuit does not work but the CDI will fire and run the engine.
The external ground does not effect the 00-01 CDI so once you add a ground any year box will work

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 08:03:55 AM

these maps show what happens when you advance the stator plate



2000 cr250 CDI


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/2000CR250ADVANCEDGRAPH.jpg)






2001 cr250 CDI



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/2001CR250ADVANCEDGRAPH.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 08:06:21 AM

Here is a 250R VORTEX these have 10 maps built in them, unfortantly during the short time I had this my bench tester burned up a circuit board and I did not get all 10 maps


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/TRX250RVortexignitioncurveMaps1-6.jpg)




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/TRX250RVortexignitioncurveMaps178.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 07, 2013, 08:08:42 AM

Here is a CR500 Vortex I had done



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR500VORTEXIGNITIONGRAPH1-6.jpg)




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR500VORTEXIGNITIONGRAPH17-10.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: mx250r91 on July 07, 2013, 09:12:39 AM

I'm glad this information made it over here. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into mapping these ignitions it's been very helpful over the years.

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 11, 2013, 11:43:32 PM

Thought I would post up Jim's CR250 ignition with a lighting coil timing curve compared to the 2001 cr250-cr125

System seams to be of a nice quality not sure who builds it but it does seam to be the same manufacture Service Honda uses for the cr500 ignition.
When I went to the Service Honda website the wire schematic matched perfectly and looks to be simular.

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/BDTand2001CR250ampCR125curves_zps9ac5d526.jpg)


here is a picture of the BDT flywheel compared to a 2001 CR250 flywheel, BDT's flywheel has a 200 gram weight added to it.
That would make the the bike feel closer to a stock style flywheel but probably still rev quicker since its much smaller diameter


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00001_zps4aac4c2e.jpg)



BDT flywheel on the scale

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00003_zpsf62768f2.jpg)


Stock 2001 CR250
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00002_zps3f6ffa31.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 12, 2013, 12:03:16 AM

Thanks Dan!

here is what the CDI and stator look like along with the adapter plate

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/DSC00001_zpsdb41fb67.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on July 14, 2013, 05:38:16 PM

heres is the Service Honda / BDT lighting coil CR ignition with added timing


(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt2_zps07a6d8d0.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt4_zpsc5c66e74.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt6_zpsb954cee8.jpg)



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/bdt8_zps9bce24e4.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: matt250r21 on July 14, 2013, 07:15:34 PM

Thank you for all this info!

Title: 2002-2003 cr250 ignition w/esr's mounting plate
Post by: rsss396 on October 21, 2013, 08:22:25 PM

Here is the results from the ESR mounting plate and 2002-2003 CDI's The curves kind of surprised me that they were shaped like they were but I double checked everything and this is what I came up with


Here is the 00-03 CR250 CDI's grouped together:

(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR2502000-2003TIMINGGRAPH_zps738a02e9.jpg)





Here is with the 00-01 CR125's added in:



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/CR250-CR1252000-2003TIMINGGRAPH_zpsd77fc1e7.jpg)






Here is what the 02 and 03 boxes look like with advance built in by adjusting the stator plate, the stator plate will allow you to add about 4 degrees of advance.




(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/timing%20curves/01-03cr25000-01cr125graphs_zpsb0256615.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on February 08, 2014, 09:54:20 AM

UPDATE:
I had a chance to check a actual Service Honda ignition last weekend and as predicted it mapped exactly the same as the BDT ignition, but there is one difference in the kit and that is the fact that they have a stator mounting plate that works on the cr500 not the cr250.
So in order to use a Service Honda kit you will have to swap the stator mounting plate or machine the service Honda plate larger to the size of the cr250.
Just one note in order to swap the stator plate to a cr250 you would have to cut the wires of the stator and re-solder them after mounting the stator on the new plate

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on February 08, 2014, 10:17:06 AM

(http://forums.trx250r.org/vbulletin_imports/105_542_2017-04-18_9108.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on April 14, 2014, 09:27:07 PM

I have checked Jon's 1998 CR250 ignition looks pretty good its pretty consistent with the 00-01 curves with about 2 degrees less advance so all Jon needs to do is advance the stator plate a couple degrees and he will be almost exactly the same.



(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/980001CR250IGNITIONCURVES_zps54452f88.jpg)






(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/rsss396/250r%20site/9800010203CR250IGNITIONCURVES_zps6fa1b05b.jpg)

Title: Ign maps
Post by: udontknowme on June 27, 2014, 01:31:17 PM

would a 125 cdi have any advantage on a 250 or 300cc engine ?   im contemplating trying a '08-'14 125sx box on my 300. currently im using a '13 250sx box. it works good but i wonder if 125sx box might work even better. as far as i know no ktm guys have tried it yet, atleast not that ive heard about.  since the boxes unplug from the wire harness i wont have to swap any other parts, just the box itself which only takes a moment to unplug and plug back in. problem is the box is $200. kind of spendy just to see if it might be slightly better or maybe worse

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on June 27, 2014, 05:26:21 PM

I would think ktm has optimized the 300's curve for ther port timing, head design and pipe

I like the 2000 cr125 on motors with more port timing and higher rpm pipes

Title: Ign maps
Post by: GO OVRIT on June 27, 2014, 05:32:59 PM

Is that 98 cr250 digital?

Title: Ign maps
Post by: rsss396 on June 27, 2014, 06:00:48 PM

I am not sure if the 98 is digital or not but it seamed to have a good spark

Title: Ign maps
Post by: T8R6X on June 27, 2014, 11:20:59 PM

From all that I've found the 97 up are digital I'm using a 99 2+ advance and love it!

Title: Ign maps
Post by: Honda863 on October 03, 2015, 05:42:03 PM

I have a cr 125 CSI and am wondering what year it is?? The pet number is 071000-1580 thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Ign maps
Post by: jadleybray on December 04, 2017, 05:51:10 PM

Well snap, who saved all the maps?

Title: Re: Ign maps
Post by: Piney0 on December 10, 2017, 10:54:45 AM

This is the only one I saved.  I wish I saved more.