TRX250r.org

Author Topic: Details of the Service Honda Digital Ignition for the 250R. A better ignition.  (Read 1872 times)

Offline gfoster

The ignition was Developed by the Service Honda team as the next generation of ignition specifically for Honda 2 stroke engines.
100 watts of accessory output power to run lights or a fan, or both.
Increased flywheel weight vs. stock CR Ignitions
Increased spark dwell at low to Mid RPM for improved response in technical riding and greater engine flexibility when racing.
Specific electronic tuning to enable the same performance with less spark advance resulting in decreased octane sensitivity/ /reduced detonation.
Massive increase in spark reserve voltage for great response and increased tolerance to changing conditions.   
Improved low end for more low to mid power, while improving on the 2001 CR ignition top end.
More suitable Map for the 250R engine that the 2001 CR ignition.
Sold by BDT online, or you can message me directly for a paypal invoice.

Offline Jordanscott888

LOL!!!! No love for Big Dog Turd products on this forum!!

Offline broken1

If you want to post anything that has to do with the clown, please do so elsewhere.

Offline gfoster

The Service Honda Ignition is a Service Honda product, it is my product. Do not like the retailer you can buy it from me.

Sorta like if you hate AutoZone you can buy your Mobil One from Advanced Auto Parts. Mobile One is not bad because AutoZone sells it, you just hate AutoZone.

The product is a very, very good product, that really does work very well. Nothing on the market can transform the low to mid transient and modulated throttle response of a Honda 2 stroke like this system. And it runs great on top. Top end running can be tuned with maps and electrical power, pretty straight forward. Low to mid transient and modulated throttle tuning takes some real work and electronic tuning. Because it is the only ignition made specifically for the Honda application. This is not a universal CDI that is adapted to work but a purpose built full system. 

Offline Jerry Hall

The Service Honda Ignition is a Service Honda product, it is my product. Do not like the retailer you can buy it from me.

............................... Because it is the only ignition made specifically for the Honda application. This is not a universal CDI that is adapted to work but a purpose built full system. 

What RPM range does the "low to mid transient and modulated throttle response occur on a CR 250?

When you say "electronic tuning" what parameters are you changing?  Dwell and voltage to change the power delivered to the spark plug?

If you were making a purpose built full system for a YZ 250 Yamaha, what would you change besides the moment of inertia of the rotor and the maps for spark vs Rpm, or TPS, or barometric, or engine temp, or intake temp, etc.?  Are your maps two dimensional or multi dimensional?

Offline gfoster

"What RPM range does the "low to mid transient and modulated throttle response occur on a CR 250?"
Why a CR250? The CR250 was designed as a MX 2 wheeler, very different operational goals and requirements than a quad or atv.
I think you may be asking what is considered low to mid RPM range for this ignition? The Low to mid is 4000 RPM or less. Beyond that RPM combustion events tend to be more stable as the engine comes into its' tuned operating range.

Electronic tuning refers to effective spark duration, the system has a much longer effective spark duration. More duration = better response low to mid. The increase in duration comes with a greater current requirement. The current is supplied by a rare earth magnet flywheel and tuned stator. Output is much greater than what can be achieved with a permanent magnet setup. The combination has a flat output curve resulting in good electrical power production at low rpm. The available electrical power also results in a huge voltage reserve that allows clean running in a surprising range of conditions.

I have no interest or intent to make an ignition for a YZ250.

Maps are two dimensional, we only have rpm and timing in this application, there is no other input to make a multidimensional map.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 11:26:40 AM by gfoster »

Online atvmxr

you are about 10 years late to the party to be offering this for TRX250r.  should have done this back then.  CR igntion is now old news.  Zeel setup is where its at now!
Bunch of race quads that run on premix

Offline gfoster

Seems there is some confusion, this is not a CR250 ignition. A CR style stator backing plate that is the extent of parts sharing. The CR ignition was not optimal for the TRX application as you seem to have recently discovered. Gen 2 of this ignition was used on the Service Honda 2 stroke development quad in 2003! We are now on Gen 3.5 for anyone counting. Development continues on this system to this day, literally.

The universal CDI you mention, with the old stock permanent magnet fly wheel from the 80's and an adapted stator I am sure is wonderful for a guy that wants to make his own map spending a day on a dyno for specific combination, perfect, for turbo and drag race guys where low to mid speed running is not a major concern.

However for the vast majority of riders that ride recreationally trails, dunes, tt racing ect. the Service Honda ignition presented here may be a better choice for the following reasons;

1) Optimized low and mid speed running, where most people ride.
2) Optimized modulated response, where most riders spend the vast majority of their riding time, with no compromise in top end.
3) The ability to run electrical accessories, like lighting or a fan.
4) Easy setup install and go. No shipping parts around to be modified. You take your existing ignition off completely, install and ride. You then have a complete system that you can use as a spare or sell. 
5) Stable development, with continued backward compatible upgrades.
6) Long term serviceable, components like the stator can be replaced easily and have several suppliers that can be used in a limited availability scenario or for use in more remote locations where a U.S. based parts supply will take time to arrive.   
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 02:01:52 AM by gfoster »

Offline broken1

Who makes the cdi, flywheel, stator & stator mounting plate?

Offline croat1

Are you (were you) affiliated with “Service Honda” that made the SRX 250?

What’s the difference between your Service Honda kit and the one one being offered on eBay and by the retailer on the other R site?

One of our old forum and respected members did a review…on a system albeit an older version with good results….I'll do a search and post the links.

As asked…where are the components made?  I believe it was stated that the CDI was made in Taiwan?

Joe
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 07:20:58 AM by croat1 »

Offline gfoster

Joe,

Thanks for your post.

Yes I am (was) Service Honda and the SRX® was our product. The ignition used in the SRX® was the previous generation of this ignition.

The ignition kits on Ebay and retailer are much the same. I do not supply adapter plates. The stator hole diameter is very slightly smaller, than some of the plates out there, making the kit a low effort choice. Folks with a plate can turn the plate down slightly, or brush the stator hole with a rotary file to use an old adapter plate.

The ignition, in case there is a FTC lawyer here, is Made is the USA with US and world wide sourced components. Much too much is currently done in Indiana, by me. 

The review would be awesome I looked but could not find it.   

Gregg


« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 11:38:28 AM by gfoster »

Offline JOEY11

I’ve got one of those ignition kits and it does work well and very simple to install. I’ve got just over 210lb cranking comp and the original R ignition it was a pain to get it started. I took the svc Honda ign kit off after testing to make sure it worked and then put in a 99 CR ign since I got it cheap compared to what used 01 kits go for so that’s what I use now and keep the svc Honda kit as a backup for a new engine I’ll eventually put in.

Offline croat1

July 4, 2013

From our old forum member Dave rssss396

https://www.forums.trx250r.org/index.php/topic,2768.msg27276.html#msg27276

Joe

Offline gfoster

Joe,

Thanks for posting the review of the gen 2 system. The updated system has more source coil power (mainly usable at low RPM) and a different trigger length. Even more ignition power make very low rpm big throttle openings even smoother. The trigger length was adjusted to reduce trigger parking during startup as the ignition has a longer trigger than the stock 20 degree trigger. The longer trigger allows the cdi during the run mode to provide more accurate dynamic timing. Timing in the real world needs to be able to change quickly (cdi processor speed) and have spread data points to more accurately track crankshaft accelerations and decelerations.  When your riding the engine rpm is fluctuating rapidly this ignition setup is purpose built for off road Honda 2 strokes. Another couple of reasons transient response is so good with this ignition.


Gregg

Offline gfoster

Joe,

I forgot one other important point. Future ignition upgrades with backward compatible on the current stable platform.

Gregg

 

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