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Author Topic: Top End  (Read 8071 times)

Offline udontknowme

Top End
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 09:43:54 PM »
that piston might be the new esr version but i dont care for how they machine the sides. it might be letting exh into all 4 transfer passages but its hard to tell without putting the piston in there and looking

something neil didnt mention but the passages can turn black if you simply dont have enough blowdown area to let the exh out fast enough

im not trying to diagnose your problem, hek you may have several problems for all i know. just letting you know some of the reasons that will cause the black
to much power is almost enough

Offline udontknowme

Top End
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2015, 10:01:30 PM »
you can draw some vertical lines with a magic marker where all the port window edges are are then put the piston in the cylinder and see if all you ports are linking like this.
to much power is almost enough

Offline zcarlson12

Top End
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 09:09:06 AM »
Ok I'll see what I can find out about that. Thanks for the tip. I think you are right that it is a combination of things going on.
Laeger 310R

Offline C-Leigh Racing

Top End
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2015, 11:30:53 AM »
Quote from: udontknowme;48778
that piston might be the new esr version but i dont care for how they machine the sides. it might be letting exh into all 4 transfer passages but its hard to tell without putting the piston in there and looking

something neil didnt mention but the passages can turn black if you simply dont have enough blowdown area to let the exh out fast enough

im not trying to diagnose your problem, hek you may have several problems for all i know. just letting you know some of the reasons that will cause the black

Your right about that piston on the machining. I wish they only had the machining like how the CR pistons are, where the machining was only behind the wrist pin. That way, the only chance of port linking would be from around the wrist pin center.
The whole problem, stems from the aux exhaust port windows being to far around in the bore & being close enough to the center to match up with the main transfers. I spent a bunch of hours trying stuff, cut sleeves & pistons in half, like a cut away, just to check what was happening.
When the linking is bad, the fresh crankcase charge is so weak, from so much being lost to early out into the exhaust, it cant keep the transfers clean & the engine ends up with more stagnet charge in the bottom end than fresh charge.
When I get his cylinder in, I'll do a degree on the ports & check that blow down.

Something else I'm really wondering, how much real performance are we gaining, from the lighting of those pistons from that machining on the sides. Would like to test one with no machining done to the sides, just to see what changes. I would gamble & say none that the average user would notice.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline Langbolt

Top End
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 01:02:38 PM »
What Pipe are you running ?

Is this a Stroker Motor ? 76mm ? Or stock stroke 72mm - (Neil will need to know this to calculate the amount of blow down)

:)

Offline zcarlson12

Top End
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2015, 02:24:47 PM »
LRD pipe and stock 89 stroke with the spacer plate. Thanks Langbolt.
Laeger 310R

Offline Langbolt

Top End
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2015, 03:05:41 PM »
Is it the LRD Adjustable ?

Maybe you need to back it out a bit....(make the pipe LONGER) ....it might be in too far causing the wave to come back too soon and causing some blow back.

Just a thought.

Maybe Ahrlan can chime in.

:)

Offline zcarlson12

Top End
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2015, 03:08:37 PM »
That's a good idea! I think I did have it almost all the way in. It is the LRD adjustable.
Laeger 310R

Offline Tbone07

Top End
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2015, 03:18:31 PM »
I didn't notice much of a difference when adjusting the pipe in or out, if any.
LED Performance 350R
Laegers-JD Performance-GThunder-HLS-PEP-HiPer-GBC

RIP Laz

Offline rablack21

Top End
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 03:39:05 PM »
I believe that the adjustment only affects a range of about 500 rpms. That's not a drastic change by any means.

Offline udontknowme

Top End
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2015, 07:51:22 PM »
Quote from: Langbolt;48809
Is it the LRD Adjustable ?

Maybe you need to back it out a bit....(make the pipe LONGER) ....it might be in too far causing the wave to come back too soon and causing some blow back.
:)

that theory might be plausible if the transfers were extremely tall but i doubt thats the case here. i would guess theyre some where around 124* which isnt extreme at all so i have a hard time buying that scenario. judging by the pics it appears theres definatly linking going on, possibly between all 4 transfers and the aux exh. i suppose that may be the whole problem, although ive never had a engine with any serious linking so i really cant comment on how much black it would create.

neil i vaguely remember when i installed a 72mm wiseco in my ktm a while back and it seems like there was no side machining at all. just a round hole above the wristpin if i recall correct. the engine runs well despite the extra weight of a nearly full side skirted piston, although machining behind the pin may not be a bad idea to shave off a few more grams but im not sure the difference would be noticable.  maybe, maybe not. i always thought it more important to keep the exh gas out rather than worry about a few extra grams of weight. so if it was designed correct, i wouldnt be afraid to use a full side skirt piston, infact i would almost prefer that type of design but thats just me

there may also be another reason to pay attention to how much is machined from the sides. you can see how theres a cavity between the wall and piston side when the piston drops down. i dont like this one bit. i dont know how much difference it makes if its there or not but i would rather it not be there

full sided piston vs machined out piston
to much power is almost enough

 

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