Author Topic: Found my Roll a-arm setup issue... (Read 5183 times)

Tbone07 · « **on:** March 07, 2016, 11:53:32 PM »

I have been fighting camber set-up issues with these Roll a-arms ever since I got them. I always thought Roll arms took 400ex spindles, but I guess I have early model a-arms that came out before the 400ex. I couldn't get the jam nut on the outside of the arm, but couldn't back the upper heim out far enough to get more positive camber. Basically the upper a-arm is longer on th earlier models that use the 250r spindles, shorter for the 400ex. Switching to 250r spindles fixed all of these issues for now.

I don't really feel like using 250r spindles....do 04/05 or 06+ 450r spindles work as a replacement?

Rupp250 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2016, 12:15:10 AM »

Why couldn't you get a different Heim with a longer threaded shaft?

http://www.fkrodends.com/products2009.html

thesmith87250r · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2016, 12:16:43 AM »

looks like ya need a longer heim joint. or a ball joint to make it work properly

2ndmoto · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2016, 12:25:29 AM »

What heims are you running? I can't run them in like what you have in the first picture. I can't get any camber out of my roll arms. If the threads were longer I could run the jam nut on the inside.

dem3500 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2016, 07:04:51 AM »

use the jam nut like you did in the second pic. thats how all the ones ive done are.

dem3500 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2016, 07:07:50 AM »

im pretty sure the 450 spindles are more like the 400 ones. i dont think that would solve your problem. why dont you want to run 250r spindles?

Burns363R · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2016, 07:50:57 AM »

JD performance claims that the 250R spindles have better geometry than the 400ex. Thats why i went back to 1989 spindles on my XC 250R.

Burns363R · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2016, 07:51:44 AM »

Also the owner of JD performance was a fabricator for Mark Laeger building a lot of the frames. So he has been around the 250r world along time.

Tbone07 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:13:23 AM »

Quote from: Rupp250;65259

Why couldn't you get a different Heim with a longer threaded shaft?

http://www.fkrodends.com/products2009.html

Quote from: thesmith87250r;65260

looks like ya need a longer heim joint. or a ball joint to make it work properly

This was one of the options I was thinking. But I wanted to mock up the 250r spindles first to see if that fixed it

Quote from: 2ndmoto;65261

What heims are you running? I can't run them in like what you have in the first picture. I can't get any camber out of my roll arms. If the threads were longer I could run the jam nut on the inside.

These are the heims directly from Roll that came with the a-arms (I bought them from another owner though). Threaded portion is 1 3/4in in length.

First picture is using 400ex spindles....if I put the jam nut on the outside I have wayyy too much positive camber, because I cant thread in the heim far enough. But if I put it on the inside of the arm, I can't get enough thread to properly tighten the jam nut (leaving me with too much negative camber). So I guess a longer heim would fix this, but kind of a band-aid fix.

Switching to the 250r spindles (second picture) fixed all of that

Tbone07 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:18:01 AM »

Quote from: dem3500;65264

im pretty sure the 450 spindles are more like the 400 ones. i dont think that would solve your problem. why dont you want to run 250r spindles?

I have everything needed for the 400ex setup, that's all really

Quote from: Burns363R;65266

JD performance claims that the 250R spindles have better geometry than the 400ex. Thats why i went back to 1989 spindles on my XC 250R.

I think I have 1986 spindles then. Mine have the extra piece that bolts on to the spindle, for the tie-rod mount. I'm not sure, they came with this big parts bin I got when I first bought my original R.

Looks like I need to find a set of 89' spindles

Burns363R · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:20:27 AM »

Ya i had a long discussion about it with Dave at JD. I told him how everyone was under the impression the 400ex was a big upgrade as far as geometry, and he said it wasnt. I dont remember exactly but i think it was in relationship to kingpin angle and the center of the tire. I think the 250R's kingpin angle meets right at the center of the tire which is most desirable. Not 100% sure but that was the gist of the conversation.

Tbone07 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:55:58 AM »

Quote from: Burns363R;65271

Ya i had a long discussion about it with Dave at JD. I told him how everyone was under the impression the 400ex was a big upgrade as far as geometry, and he said it wasnt. I dont remember exactly but i think it was in relationship to kingpin angle and the center of the tire. I think the 250R's kingpin angle meets right at the center of the tire which is most desirable. Not 100% sure but that was the gist of the conversation.

Well that's good to know.

Does the 89' spindle have the tie-rod mount built in? The microfiche says it doesn't, but the pictures online say differently. Mine has that shitty extra bracket held on with 2 bolts.

Hurley250R · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2016, 10:02:00 AM »

Quote from: Tbone07;65272

Well that's good to know.

Does the 89' spindle have the tie-rod mount built in? The microfiche says it doesn't, but the pictures online say differently. Mine has that shitty extra bracket held on with 2 bolts.

Yes 89 is one piece. You have 86 if it bolts together.

Tbone07 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2016, 10:49:55 AM »

Quote from: Hurley250R;65273

Yes 89 is one piece. You have 86 if it bolts together.

Awesome thanks. Can't figure out why Honda would do that in the first place.

Now on another note......which years of 400ex and 250r hubs can be used together?

My 400ex hubs wouldn't go on the 250r spindles, but there's a spacer in the 400ex hub that was preventing that

Burns363R · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2016, 08:27:39 PM »

89 hubs and 400ex hubs can be interchanged. You can use 400ex hubs on an 88 spindle, but you have to remove the tapered coller from the hub.