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Author Topic: Cylinder heat caused by pipe  (Read 19230 times)

Offline udontknowme

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« on: September 28, 2013, 02:01:51 PM »
so the esr pipes have to small stinger causing excess heat on the piston ?  dude on the other site says jerry hall been fixing the problem. doesnt bdt claim theyre the best and better than the rest. certainly after all these years of being the best wouldnt you know about a problem like this. i meen with hundreds of sharpie dynos under his belt wouldnt you know the correct stinger size for a given pipe. never seen carla even mention about this stinger issue.  but i guess when your just the salesman behind the cash register you dont get into the technical aspects
to much power is almost enough

Offline Pumashine

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 02:47:07 PM »
The trx250r standard is 1" ID at the stinger. If you are going over 400cc it is advised to increase stinger size to 1.125 ID. Some have been referring to the 1.125 stinger diameter as big bore pipes or BB as BDT calls it. The are a couple companies that make the big bore pipes. This one on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/350296312069?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 I use for reference. LRD made some and Shearer use the bigger diameter for all Puma or Saber pipes. You would have to ask BDT if their pipes are made with the 1.125" stinger. I modify all my ESR pipes to use the 1.125" ID stinger for the BB's
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline F-Red

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 02:55:21 PM »
Quote from: Pumashine;13265
The trx250r standard is 1" ID at the stinger. If you are going over 400cc it is advised to increase stinger size to 1.125 ID. Some have been referring to the 1.125 stinger diameter as big bore pipes or BB as BDT calls it. The are a couple companies that make the big bore pipes. This one on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/350296312069?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 I use for reference. LRD made some and Shearer use the bigger diameter for all Puma or Saber pipes. You would have to ask BDT if their pipes are made with the 1.125" stinger. I modify all my ESR pipes to use the 1.125" ID stinger for the BB's

When you mention stinger, isn't that the small end of the pipe?
Want To See My Wieners?

Offline Bigred

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 03:17:03 PM »
Yup part thst connect s to your silencer
1986 R
260cc oem cylinder
tc ported
38mm as carb
boyseen reeds
Ohlins front shocks
redone oem rear shock
93 pump fuel
cool head inline temp gauge

Offline Pumashine

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 03:39:23 PM »
Quote from: Bigred;13268
Yup part thst connect s to your silencer
The last 6-12 inches of the pipe and 6-8 inches that goes into the silencer. Since BB mufflers are not readily available the BB pipe builder usually builds a muffler for the pipe. You will see this with our site sponsor LED. Arlan offers pipes either way and  mufflers also.

Shearer puma pipe right with BB stinger. FTZ whale pipe left standard stinger.


Closer look
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline F-Red

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 07:53:48 PM »
Quote from: Pumashine;13269
The last 6-12 inches of the pipe and 6-8 inches that goes into the silencer.



Closer look

So Tony, under 400cc does not require the larger 1.125 I.D. stinger? I ask because of my situation.
Want To See My Wieners?

Offline C-Leigh Racing

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 08:22:18 PM »
Two stroke pipes, are such a complicated thing, that it is pure mind boggling at how different they need to be for every single engine build. So complicated, that when you build one & it matches up to the porting & build of that engine, the power that engine will produce, you'll be amazed.
But, just because that pipe built for & matched up to your engine worked like it was suppose to, dont mean you could sell that pipe to someone & it would work the same on their engine build.

That engine that the pipe worked so well on, when you change anything about how that engine is set up, even no more than fitting the next size larger piston, it causes the engine tune to be off some amount with that pipe, because you changed the bore size. The difference in change might not even be enough for a rider to tell or feel the difference, but it is there.
Building the engine, only part of what all has to be done & everything that has anything to do with the engine must match up, from the tip of the air filter element all the way through to the tip of the silencer outlet.
Getting a cylinder ported, like when your building for top performance, if that is all you've done, is compared to like one ant from a large ant nest.

It might be surprising, but there could be times on an engine build, even using the OEM 250R cylinder, that a larger stinger would be needed. All about that build & what the engine is being used for.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline DnB_Racing

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 09:03:14 PM »
Quote from: Pumashine;13265
The trx250r standard is 1" ID at the stinger. If you are going over 400cc it is advised to increase stinger size to 1.125 ID. Some have been referring to the 1.125 stinger diameter as big bore pipes or BB as BDT calls it. The are a couple companies that make the big bore pipes. This one on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/350296312069?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 I use for reference. LRD made some and Shearer use the bigger diameter for all Puma or Saber pipes. You would have to ask BDT if their pipes are made with the 1.125" stinger. I modify all my ESR pipes to use the 1.125" ID stinger for the BB's
I've always thought the stinger length and diameter were determined by the length and diameter of the header pipe? and not because of bore and stroke of the cylinder

and more of a measure of the exhaust port then bore size
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 09:21:18 PM by DnB_Racing »

Offline Pumashine

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 09:04:24 PM »
Quote from: F-Red;13305
So Tony, under 400cc does not require the larger 1.125 I.D. stinger? I ask because of my situation.
 If you read between the lines the bigger motors need to breath better. Yes, a 330 is being choked. A 350 and 370 are in the same group. But they do not see as much of an overheating problem as the 400+cc. What pipe and silencer are you running now? Some silencers are restrictive, other don't impede the flow at all.
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline etccb

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 09:23:50 PM »
The B pipes dropped the temp 10ish deg and wont require a larger stinger on a big bb that may have wanted it in the past. Some may still though.....
Std 5's and 9's have been used just fine on 370 and under for a long long time. Maybe some of them would have liked the changes, maybe they were perfectly fine.
Watch your temps and if you need it lots of people could change it up for you.
As Tony said guys have been doing it as needed on the real big boys for a while.

Offline rsss396

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 10:28:00 PM »
Quote from: DnB_Racing;13312
I've always thought the stinger length and diameter were determined by the length and diameter of the header pipe? and not because of bore and stroke of the cylinder

 and more of a measure of the exhaust port then bore size

header x .58 to .62 is the typical stinger sizing stock 250r flange is 45mm x .58 = 26.1mm or 1.03 ID   upto  45mm x .62 = 27.9m or 1.10" ID
Anyone looking for a great builder I highly recommend the following.
For CP products dealers I would recommend:
Arlan at LED(site sponsor), Pete Schemberger at Hybrid Engineering, Mat Shearer at Shearer Custom Pipes, Dennis Packard at Packard Racing, and Nate McCoy of McCoys Peformance.

Other great builders I also would recommend: Neil Prichard, Jerry Hall, Bubba Ramsey and James Dodge.

Offline DnB_Racing

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 10:40:24 PM »
Quote from: rsss396;13329
header x .58 to .62 is the typical stinger sizing stock 250r flange is 45mm x .58 = 26.1mm or 1.03 ID   upto  45mm x .62 = 27.9m or 1.10" ID
so would it make sense to say that once you go to the larger exhaust flange you would be smart to go to the 1 1/8 stinger

Offline rsss396

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 10:56:22 PM »
Quote from: increasenB_Racing;13332
so would it make sense to say that once you go to the larger exhaust flange you would be smart to go to the 1 1/8 stinger
Yes but like I have stated along with arlan hp, engine size and type of use play a factor in the stinger needs.
If you hold the throttle wide open for longer peroids of time you should increase  stinger size
If you Increase engine size you will normally increase exhaust port area and stinger size should increase with it and many times the header/flange size also.
Anyone looking for a great builder I highly recommend the following.
For CP products dealers I would recommend:
Arlan at LED(site sponsor), Pete Schemberger at Hybrid Engineering, Mat Shearer at Shearer Custom Pipes, Dennis Packard at Packard Racing, and Nate McCoy of McCoys Peformance.

Other great builders I also would recommend: Neil Prichard, Jerry Hall, Bubba Ramsey and James Dodge.

Offline dana265

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2013, 11:18:21 PM »
Pipes are vary, some pipes will run better on some motors than other. I always thought the  difference in the BB and SB was the total pipe.
the BB i would think would have to breath better, vs a small bore.
We took my silencer and put a straight pipe in it, kindof sneaky at the asphalt track when you can only run mufflers.....

A note I do love shearer pipes, I have ran the esr pipes (and my rider has a esr pipe, Came with the quad).

I don't knock anyone elses product (unless you are , well nevermind on them , it s a banshee thing anyway)...
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 11:22:52 PM by dana265 »

Offline rsss396

Cylinder heat caused by pipe
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2013, 11:28:31 PM »
The straight pipe has slightly less restriction because of no perferations that would create turbulance and if you were runing longer passes than in the dunes this would help keep piston heat down some

you are correct about a big bore pipe being more than just the same pipe with a bigger stinger, but there is a gray area where a simple stinger increase does the job very well.
Anyone looking for a great builder I highly recommend the following.
For CP products dealers I would recommend:
Arlan at LED(site sponsor), Pete Schemberger at Hybrid Engineering, Mat Shearer at Shearer Custom Pipes, Dennis Packard at Packard Racing, and Nate McCoy of McCoys Peformance.

Other great builders I also would recommend: Neil Prichard, Jerry Hall, Bubba Ramsey and James Dodge.

 

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