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Author Topic: Needle Recommendations  (Read 8737 times)

Offline pantera1975

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2013, 03:11:40 PM »
My motor ping from 1/8 to just over 1/2.

Offline zcarlson12

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2013, 04:27:19 PM »
Well good news, the motor held 6psi for 12 minutes. Am I right thinking the rings may not be seating all of the way or didn't seat all of the way when I did my break in?
Laeger 310R

Offline Jerry Hall

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 02:17:31 PM »
Quote from: udontknowme;16353
i think you guys been listening to carlos to much :D

maybe jerry could chime in on the subject ?

my thoughts have always been static pressure is pretty much useless info, to me anyways. a ton of things influence it. varying gauges, altitude, porting. hell the pipe and carb size probly do as well. and possibly even the reed stiffness ? besides soon as the engine is running the cylinder pressure changes. so what does a static number tell you. not much that i can see.

some people use a pressure gauge as a quick and easy way to determine when the top end is wearing out and i can see the usefulness in that respect provided you always use the same gauge and dont make any engine modifications but still you should confirm with tool measurements and examining the suspected worn parts.

Your top ring will seat in about the first 5 to 10 minutes of break-in running after a new bore job, providing you have a good bore that is less than .0005" of being round. We see a lot of freshly bored cylinders that are unacceptable. The bores will be out of round, or tapered, or have 6 high spots where the studs are located or a combination of all three common problems.

Choose a shop that has good boring equipment and uses Sunnen type wet mandrel hones to finish the bore after machining. Do not let anyone put a ball hone, de-glazing flapper type hone a flex-hone or a hone that is mounted on the end of a drill motor in your cylinder. A ball hone, flapper de-glazing hone, or flex hone will make any bore look good but they will not correct out of round or taper in a bore. Ball hones severely damage the vertical bridges in two stroke cylinders and cause the bridges to ware slots in the ring where the ring makes contact with the bridges at an accelerated rate.

We have customers constantly wanting to know how much compression their engine should have. We seldom use a compression gauges on a two-stroke cylinders to diagnose cylinder condition because of the wide variety of fittings, hose lengths and where the check valve is located. The combustion chamber volumes on the small two strike engines are rather small in comparison to the volume that may be between the combustion chamber and the gauge. Run a compression test on a 400 cubic inch V8 engine with ten different gauge/hardware setups and you may only see a 10 psi difference between gauges. Run a compression test a 250 cc engine with the same ten different gauges and you may see 10 to 50 psi difference between gauges.

A compression test on an engine that has not been run since it was assembled is usually meaningless. If you want to know how much compression your engine has, I would use the following procedure:

1. Run the engine for at least 30 seconds to a minute to remove excess oil on the cylinder wall and combustion chamber.

2. Kick the engine over as vigorously as possible with the throttle held wide open.

3. Continue kicking the engine over until the pressure will not rise anymore.

4. Write the number down and do not share it with anyone because you will only get into arguments with other riders and engine builders on what number is correct.


The cranking pressure is another area of controversy when it comes to determining what octane fuel to use on a particular engine build. The pressure in the cylinder near ignition time, the peak cylinder pressure during combustion and the combustion chamber shape as well as long list of other variables is what primarily determines what octane fuel your engine needs to protect it from detonation. The cranking pressure has nothing to do with what octane fuel your engine may require.

I have seen two-stroke engines with over 200 psi cranking pressure with a very poor pipe and port combination, run detonation free on pump gas. I also have seen a lot of our highly developed two-strokes that have 130 to 150 psi cranking pressure that need fuel with an octane rating of well over 115.  Fuel octane requirement for a particular engine has to be determined by dyno and field-testing

Offline Jerry Hall

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2013, 02:21:44 PM »
Quote from: pantera1975;16389
My motor ping from 1/8 to just over 1/2.

The noise that you are calling "pinging", is the noise ringing off of the engine or do you hear it coming out of the muffler?

Offline pantera1975

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 07:54:00 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Hall;16492
The noise that you are calling "pinging", is the noise ringing off of the engine or do you hear it coming out of the muffler?

As I went richer on the needle the noise went away. It only does it under acceleration mostly in 1-4 gear  in the 1/8-1/2 throttle positions. It sounds like taking a hammer and hitting the engine cases.

Offline udontknowme

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 11:13:52 PM »
most 2t engines make alot of noise. the spur gears, waterpump, clutchbearing, rattling pipe springs and just the combustion noise radaiting through the pipe walls and cylinder etc etc. pretty sure most noises people hear are just normal sounds.
to much power is almost enough

Offline pantera1975

Needle Recommendations
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 09:20:55 PM »
I know in my case it was lean the richer I made it the more power it had and it revved up better plus the noise got less and less.

 

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