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Author Topic: +4 mm Crank question  (Read 18043 times)

Offline mrtwidster1

+4 mm Crank question
« on: November 22, 2013, 05:20:40 PM »
I have a set of decent 85 r cases. I have been saving them for a big bore. Do I need to buy a year specific +4 crank or will any 85-89 work?
Also, what are the tranny  differences between 85/86 and up

Offline Pumashine

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2013, 05:28:40 PM »
The +4 hotrods crank is only sold with a 87-89 long rod on them. So you may have to run a spacer plate depending what cylinder you are using.
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline mrtwidster1

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 05:50:02 PM »
As far as using 85 case's I should be good? Understood on the spacer plate. I am assuming that the 87 up cases's are "taller" ?

I guess it boils down to this question. Will a 87 and up crank work in the 85 engine?
LOL I have just about confused myself!!! (UH EXCUSE ME!!  WHAT WAS MY QUESTION AGAIN???) Ha Ha :culpability:

Offline Pumashine

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 06:40:07 PM »
The cases are interchangeable on all years. The 85-86 motors used a short rod and the 87-89 motors used a long rod. The cylinders are the same but the pistons have different pin heights to compensate for the rod length.
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline atv fan 28

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 10:20:17 PM »
Quote from: Pumashine;18117
The +4 hotrods crank is only sold with a 87-89 long rod on them. So you may have to run a spacer plate depending what cylinder you are using.

Are you sure??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/280580476692?lpid=82

Offline Pumashine

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 11:33:34 PM »
Quote from: atv fan 28;18130
Are you sure??
Damn right:sign0108:  Yes Wayne, can't you tell they exchanged the long rod with a short rod? That is why it is $180 more. Go to the Hotrods website and search for the part # Carlos made up... HR4106-S does not exist. What do you expect from a snake?
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline sameltoe

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2013, 12:31:35 AM »
The OP meantions transmission also. Where they the same 85-88 and 89 had a "close ratio" trans?
Arens, Arsfx, BHP363
Arens, lsr dc2 no link, lsr dc4, BHP363

Offline C-Leigh Racing

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 08:55:11 AM »
I'll try to help.
That crank deal on e bay is kinda confusing, cause if your going to use it, what piston could you use that wouldnt hit the crank tins. Maybe I've not built enough different types of 250R engines to know, so the only piston I could think of would be the old 85/86 version.

As Tony stated, all years of the TRX250R cases will interchange & can be mix/matched with different year model internal parts.
Some differences in how the cases are cast should be noted, like the width of the front engine mount is wide cast & other years it is narrower. The narrow type front mount, say like if attention is not paid to the engine to frame mounting bolts & most have for some reason came loose, that little narrow front mount could break off, but theres been very few that I have seen broken.
The 85/86 cases, how they are cast, they are thicker cast directly under the crankshaft area, so they are good to use like if your building a stroker crank build that the cases must be trenched, from using an abnormal type of con rod that the big end of the rod not clearanced. By those being thicker in that area, if trenching is needed they tend to retain a bit more strength because of that thickness.

The transmissions, early 85/86, some of those gears are different ratios than the 87 & up gears. The ratios between the years I do not know, just that some are different. Early year gears were more prone to busting, reason why could be many reasons. Maybe they were hardened to much, so they were in turn more brittle or maybe to soft, not hardened enough.
I do know this about them, the ratios of the early years, those ratios when used with a high compression big bore grunt engine build, in a race when you shift to third, every body else on the line is history, but you have in the back of your mind wondering when they will bust.
The 87 & up being the best, will last the longest & has the closest ratios, but one of those can still be busted.
If there has ever been a late model transmission been through a test, it has been my daughters, because once she leaves the start line in a race, that clutch lever not touched up shift or down shift. I guess she must think its an automatic, but I know she knows better. Since 04 her engines only been rebuilt once & we've only had one gear to bust in all those years & believe me, in those years the engine has been beat on racing national level & local EDT racing.

Do not, mix & match transmission gears from different years.
If you have a problem with a trans & need to replace an item, do the research & be sure to get the proper year replacement part. Keep 85/86 parts together & dont mix with the newer years.
You can to some extent research, go to like an OEM parts site, pull up the micro fisch & look up the transmissions of different years & it will list the gears & how many teeth that each has. Make a list of each year & each gear & the teeth count & you'll know which gear matches up with which year model.
After you have that list in hand, if you pull a transmission out, all you'll need to do is count the gear numbers to know which year trans your dealing with.

TRX250R OEM cylinders, if you measure them they all measure the same from base to deck, can be mismatched between years on all year cases & just a mater of using the correct year piston & crank combination.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline mrtwidster1

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2013, 09:18:24 AM »
Thanks! That info helps as well.

Offline JoePA

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 11:53:48 AM »
OK I did some searching so i'll bring this post back to the top.

What is required to run the +4 crank? If I install this crank in my 86 engine using my topend what is needed? Porting changes? Spacer plate? Both?

thanks
Joe

Offline Burns363R

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 12:24:32 PM »
FYI that crank is specially built for BDT.  So what proof do you have that he isnt getting a Short rod +4mm crank? Im just trying to keep the facts straight. Sorry for the ensuing argument.

BDT Link Removed
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 01:33:36 PM by motofool250r »
TRX 363R 02- Laeger Narrow Frame/CR500 Link, Motowoz Suspension, Roll Design +4 LT Arms,RPM Dominator +4 axle, LED 363 MX, LED 350G Pipe, 38 A/S CR Ignition

TRX 370R 86- Laeger Std,ISF-No Link Swinger, JD MGC LT Arms) Motowoz Shocks, LED 370/350D pipe, 38 PWK Carb, CR Ignition

Offline JoePA

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 12:40:23 PM »
I'm talking about a standard HotRod +4 crank. Sorry for the confusion

Offline 05450r

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 12:41:40 PM »
:fighting0071:
04 450r XC
LNP Like New Parts Powder Coating

Offline Langbolt

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 01:02:32 PM »
JoePA,

If you're running a +4 Crank (assuming the Long Rod version - 130.5mm Center to Center) with a '86 Cylinder & '86 Piston....you will need a Spacer plate to take into acount the 2mm of extra vertical travel that the piston will have (+4 = 2mm up & 2mm down)

Also, with the rod being 5mm longer you'll need the spacer plate to account for that too! (Most people use a 3/16" Aluminum spacer plate....or a 0.190" as some sell them in this size too) - PUMASHINE is the man for these!

 So you could start with a 7mm (0.275") spacer plate.....or 1/4" (0.25") and then check your Port Timings & SQUISH....Let us know your values and we can direct you in the right direction. - C-Leigh Racing will chime in once we know what type of motor you want to build.

:)

Offline Tbone07

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 01:17:00 PM »
Quote from: atv fan 28;18130
Are you sure??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/280580476692?lpid=82

HAHAHA. $100 markup for a Wurks crankshaft
LED Performance 350R
Laegers-JD Performance-GThunder-HLS-PEP-HiPer-GBC

RIP Laz

 

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