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Author Topic: +4 mm Crank question  (Read 17384 times)

Offline wilkin250r

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 01:18:59 PM »
Quote from: JoePA;23036
OK I did some searching so i'll bring this post back to the top.

What is required to run the +4 crank? If I install this crank in my 86 engine using my topend what is needed? Porting changes? Spacer plate? Both?

thanks
Joe

The spacer plate depends on the piston. The crank is a long-rod crank.  If you have a piston that is designed for a short-rod crank (either a new piston or re-using your current one), you will need a spacer plate in order to use that piston with a long-rod crank.

As for the rest of the engine, all the port timing is based on the movement of the piston.  Since the stroker crank changes the movement of the piston, it also changes all your port timing.  Your cylinder would need to be ported specifically for your new stroker crankshaft.  If it has already been ported once for a stock-stroke crankshaft, there is a very good chance it cannot be used for your stroker, you would need to get a new cylinder that has never been ported.

Offline JoePA

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2014, 01:23:07 PM »
Langbolt,
    OK now that makes sense. Can I also try this setup.....+4 crank, an 87-89 piston with my 86 cylinder, use a standard spacer plate and just make sure port timing looks right as well as squish?

Offline motofool250r

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2014, 01:37:39 PM »
Quote from: Tbone07;23053
HAHAHA. $100 markup for a Wurks crankshaft

ebays seller fees are now rediculous they have removed all profit i had in stickers and other things i was selling. So expect to see all things Ebay going up across the board with their new seller fees.

that Buy it now option is likely 59$ ebay fee. if it scales from 200-394$ the same rate they are charging me
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Offline Tbone07

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2014, 03:15:42 PM »
Quote from: motofool250r;23060
ebays seller fees are now rediculous they have removed all profit i had in stickers and other things i was selling. So expect to see all things Ebay going up across the board with their new seller fees.

that Buy it now option is likely 59$ ebay fee. if it scales from 200-394$ the same rate they are charging me

Wow that's ridiculous. What a ripoff. It's just too easy to take a swipe at the coc i couldn't resist
LED Performance 350R
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Offline udontknowme

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2014, 04:10:46 PM »
Quote from: Burns363R;23040
FYI that crank is specially built for BDT.  So what proof do you have that he isnt getting a Short rod +4mm crank? Im just trying to keep the facts straight. Sorry for the ensuing argument.

BDT Link Removed

website says they offer crank stroking and balancing. aparently they dont do this service in house but just contract it off to another shop ?
to much power is almost enough

Offline Burns363R

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2014, 04:19:46 PM »
Where do you see they dont do that in house?  I dont see it anywhere.  I guess if they dont say they contract it out, they must do it in house.  I believe that we have seen there jig for rebuilding cranks actually as well.
TRX 363R 02- Laeger Narrow Frame/CR500 Link, Motowoz Suspension, Roll Design +4 LT Arms,RPM Dominator +4 axle, LED 363 MX, LED 350G Pipe, 38 A/S CR Ignition

TRX 370R 86- Laeger Std,ISF-No Link Swinger, JD MGC LT Arms) Motowoz Shocks, LED 370/350D pipe, 38 PWK Carb, CR Ignition

Offline C-Leigh Racing

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2014, 04:28:03 PM »
When using a STD stroke long rod crank & 85/86 piston, regardless of which year cylinder, if you want the piston crown to come up flush with the cylinder deck at TDC, you'll need a 3mm spacer plate & 2 base gaskets to go under the cylinder.
Now when adding a +4 stroker crank into the mix, you know the piston will travel 2 more mm higher at TDC & then 2 more mm  lower at BDC, so when using a + 4 stroker crank with a long rod & using the old 85/86 piston, a 5mm spacer plate & 2 base gaskets must be used.

Another way to do it, not the best way, but some will just use the 3mm spacer plate & 2 base gaskets, then they will machine the head squish area so that when the piston crown comes up out of the cylinder, that extra 2 mms of piston sticking up past the cylinder deck can run up into the head.

When adding a +4 stroker, the Hot Rods will have the big end of the rod clearanced, so no trenching of the cases will be needed, but you'll still need to clearance the cases right at the top right in the middle to clear the front & rear I beam part of the rod.

Best way to see what I'm say, if you have one of those clearanced main bearings for the clutch side case half, where the crank will slip right into the bearing, put that crank in the clutch side half, mount the piston on the rod & then sit the cylinder down on that case half & slowly rotate the crank.
You should notice as your rotating the crank, see the front & rear of the rod litely hit the case right at the top, so you'll need to clearance the cases in those areas. As far as I know, the ESR stroker cranks, the rods on those have been clearanced a bit more in that area of the rod, so probably no clearancing needed if using one of theirs.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
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If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline ledperformance

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2014, 09:23:04 PM »
If you install the plus 4 stroke (76mm) crank into your 86 TRX 250R it will advance all your port timings. For example if the exhaust port is stock it would be about 43.20 mm from the top of the cylinder. With the stock stroke this would give you total exhaust port duration of about 176'. If you installed the 76mm stroke crank with the 86 piston and a 3/16" spacer plate the exhaust duration would be increased to about 180' . The stock transfer timing stock is about 120' (59.10 mm). The stroker crank would advance it to about 126'. The piston would come out of the top of the cylinder about .030".
I would probably machine the head for deck clearance rather than space the cylinder to 0 deck. 126' degree's transfer is enough for that cylinder but it could use more exhaust timing. So depending on what the engine is being used for I would raise the exhaust port to 183-186 degree's. Of course for best results a lot of other work could be done to improve the porting.

Offline rk88r

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2014, 09:47:01 PM »
Great info. I just pulled a '86 cylinder that was "ported" by some one (they ground on the easy to reach areas). Anyway I just measured the port heights and they match your numbers exactly. Fyi I don't port and likely never will.
\'99 Laeger narrow, cr link, +3+1 protrax, Peps, with a LED 363
\'88 265 pv peps
One other \'88

Offline ledperformance

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 09:56:07 PM »
Quote from: rk88r;23112
Great info. I just pulled a '86 cylinder that was "ported" by some one (they ground on the easy to reach areas). Anyway I just measured the port heights and they match your numbers exactly. Fyi I don't port and likely never will.
Porting will really wake that cylinder up. Porting is worth more than the crank for sure. Improving the transfer port angles will make a big increase in acceleration. The cylinder stock also has very mild port timings. It will make close to 50 hp with the right port, pipe reed valve and carb combination. And it will have a wide power band with killer low end and strong midrange power.

Offline rk88r

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 10:09:16 PM »
That '86 is an R rescue, I'm like the humane society for R's lol. I saving up for a sphinx. Hopefully you keep a few in stock.
\'99 Laeger narrow, cr link, +3+1 protrax, Peps, with a LED 363
\'88 265 pv peps
One other \'88

Offline udontknowme

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2014, 10:57:53 PM »
Quote from: Burns363R;23077
Where do you see they dont do that in house?  I dont see it anywhere.  I guess if they dont say they contract it out, they must do it in house.  I believe that we have seen there jig for rebuilding cranks actually as well.

well the ebay add says they had the crank specially made for them. sounds like somebody else is doing the work.

they probly have a press for installing new rods but stroking is a whole different ballgame with different machining equipment needed
to much power is almost enough

Offline ledperformance

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2014, 11:01:50 PM »
Quote from: rk88r;23117
That '86 is an R rescue, I'm like the humane society for R's lol. I saving up for a sphinx. Hopefully you keep a few in stock.
It may be a sickness! But I don't judge! lol
Anyone that rescues 250 R's is ok by me!

Offline Burns363R

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2014, 06:53:25 AM »
I believe Hot Rods is building them new cranks is what is happening.  So i guess if that means some one outside is building there cranks then i guess you can say that.  But thats no more than any other shop that sells new cranks.
TRX 363R 02- Laeger Narrow Frame/CR500 Link, Motowoz Suspension, Roll Design +4 LT Arms,RPM Dominator +4 axle, LED 363 MX, LED 350G Pipe, 38 A/S CR Ignition

TRX 370R 86- Laeger Std,ISF-No Link Swinger, JD MGC LT Arms) Motowoz Shocks, LED 370/350D pipe, 38 PWK Carb, CR Ignition

Offline udontknowme

+4 mm Crank question
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
any joe blow can buy that crank so it aint special for nobody. just marked up $160 more . too funny
to much power is almost enough

 

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