Author Topic: Shocking development on ESR cylinders (Read 5190 times)

C-Leigh Racing · « **on:** February 28, 2014, 01:28:54 PM »

Did some machining on a ESR cylinder casting & you guys might not believe what I found. Will have more info once I can post a pic, so stay tuned to this channel.
Neil

Ok, thank the Lord for a daughter that can help me.

havinnoj · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2014, 05:10:21 PM »

That's a nice looking water jacket! Details details..

C-Leigh Racing · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2014, 05:34:56 PM »

Yes it is.
Sad part though, when Eddie came out with those cylinders, I was probably the first one to think they were solid aluminum under the exhaust port. Boy did I make a big a$$ umption.

Notice the number stamped into the casting under the exhaust port. If that number indicates from number 1 to how ever many been cast, that would be number 6 cylinder sold, so this cylinder could be one of the very early ones cast if that is correct.

You cant see it in the first pic, there are passage ways on both sides of the casting, so coolant can flow around past the aux exhaust ports & on down & under the main exhaust port.
The thum like cavity on both sides of the outside, where the case stud & nut sit to mount the cylinder, coolant can flow down past that area between that cavity & the main transfer port tunnels.

Now, since we know for sure coolant can get under & around the exhaust port area, what could be the real reason for so many piston seizures?
Neil

Jerry Hall · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:15:45 PM »

Quote from: C-Leigh Racing;27295

Yes it is.

............Now, since we know for sure coolant can get under & around the exhaust port area, what could be the real reason for so many piston seizures?
Neil

Please explain your theory why cooling below the exhaust port may be causing piston seizures.

C-Leigh Racing · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:37:25 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Hall;27301

Please explain your theory why cooling below the exhaust port may be causing piston seizures.

Not causing piston seizures with coolant under the exhaust, that is not what I'm leading to.
My early thinking, back when Eddie first came out with these cylinders, that the area under the exhaust port was solid aluminum & no coolant could get down under the exhaust port to remove heat from that area. Now though, after I've done the milling down into the base of the cylinder casting, we all can see coolant "can" get down into that area.
If the casting were solid, no cooling jacket under the exhaust, then the exhaust side of the casting, would to a greater extent have to run much hotter than one where coolant could get under the exhaust port.
If coolant can get to that area, it should be able to at least remove some amount of heat build up.

The whole idea of this testing on a ESR casting, was to see if I could mill out the area under the exhaust port to create a cavity, then bore passage ways on both sides to the upper part of the casting so coolant could get down under the exhaust. Only trying to make a good product better was my thinking. Never know till you try.
Neil

F-Red · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:58:40 PM »

Neil, thanks for exploring, this theory. Good info!

rsss396 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:08:10 PM »

its to bad that the 250r never pushed the water from the water pump up thru the lower cases into the bottom of the cylinder in the area you machined away, that is how all modern snowmobile cylinders are and I believe many other modern 2 strokes

Greg Huntley · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:10:23 PM »

Very cool Neil, I bought that cylinder in jan of 09. I would guess it was one of the first few sold. I called for an atc pipe and Tom told me they had just developed their own cylinder. Too bad my counterbalancer let loose and ruined crank sleeve and piston. Hope to hear more of your findings

rsss396 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:15:55 PM »

I believe like Carlos brought up awhile ago about some of the early cylinders that the flow above the export was very limited because of the powervalve area and the extra material around the front 2 cylinder studs. I never held the ESR cylinder in my hand to see for myself but all the picture that had been previously posted showed a area that seamed to be starved for good water flow and this is probably the most import part of the cylinder to keep cool in order to keep the exhaust side of the piston from overheating.
As great as the CP Industries cylinders are I believe water flow thru the cylinder was one area they did not improve on and in some models made worse than the factory (Liger)

C-Leigh Racing · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:42:14 PM »

I tell you, it has got to be a tricky thing, putting those casting mold pieces together & then getting everything to come out like you think it should once cast is finished. Probably was a bunch or trial & error, just think the hours Eddie has put into all of these new products & for an old TRX250R at that.

Ol 250R is one of those things, like you see two guys fighting & the one mouthing & starting the fight, is the first one down & hes still trying to get up & running his mouth, so the one winning ask him, boy you gona get up again, when will you learn.
I think the ol R aint finished yet, all these 4 poke people might think so, but that billfold of theirs will tell them different by the time that 4 poker is done with them.
Neil

udontknowme · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2014, 11:25:48 PM »

having water around the exh doesnt seem like a bad idea