Author Topic: ESR 330 Failure (Read 50087 times)

F-Red · « **on:** July 10, 2013, 01:36:56 PM »

Hey Boys, It's nice to be here! Feels like I'm dating, a new girl! Let's get to it.
I purchased a 330 Non-Bolt on kit, from ESR back in January. The first piston with plenty of heat cycles, then some slow riding around the yard.
Went out for the first good ride. Engine was always up to running temperature. 15 mins. into the ride 4th gear under some power, she locked up.
I sent it back to ESR, they couldn't explain any reason for the seizure. They honed the cylinder, said it had good clearance I can't
remember what it was, I roughly measured the piston and cylinder, it was .0065, sent another 76mm piston. The second piston, I was even more
cautious then the first time. After some good ride time, maybe 2hrs. total, she locked up again. Four corner seizure. This time I had a local guy,
that has bored some cylinders in the past, do the work. For the third piston, I had to use a 77mm. When the machinist started the bore, you good see
how the original bore job was so out of round. He gave me .0045 clearance. She ran very well, I was loving the ride. Then it happen again, after 5hrs.
of run time. I have some investment in this cylinder with Neil's porting. I would like to try, one more time. Maybe it is a overheating issue.
What about slowing down the coolant flow, at the intake side? I’ve heard you can epoxy the back side of the head, then drill out some holes, to resemble
the stock head gasket.

Thanks, Fred.

Pump Gas Dome
Ran Non-Ethanol 91 (The third piston, mixed 50/50 91 w/ 110 )
Leak Down Test (Held 6lbs. for ever each build)
Used Timing Light (Advanced 5-6 degrees) ESR CR Ignition
Stock, but clean radiator
Stock Stroke
Running Temp 180 deg. (200+ @ Seizure)

Burns363R · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:08:41 PM »

I had this happen to me 6 times in a row on a ESR 330 PV bolt on kit. THe last time ESR put a new sleeve in it for free. I had sent it out to get some port work done to it, and USPS dropped my box and ruined the cylinder. I got a full refund (thanks to insurance) and they kept my cylinder. So obviously i have no idea if it was ever fixed.

But basically mine did just what your saying. I would break it in, run it around at home and test it. Take it to the track and it would lock up on lap 2-3. I even did a 450 degree bake (multiple steps per C-Leigh) on one of my pistons thinking that my forged pistons where growing more than the standard cast ones i was used to. Didnt really help.

I hope you get it figured out, maybe someone will have some actual advice(I dont have any to help) Sorry.

fearlessfred · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:32:48 PM »

I don't have a real answer but I think your on track with the over heating thing .the top of your piston has no transfer wash suggesting that you could run richer on the jetting.I was wondering what the butt gap on the rings were.I ask because of the strange blowby markings at the ring ends

F-Red · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:38:14 PM »

SIX TIMES!!! I thought I had it bad. It's so frustrating. My son builds dirt bike top end's for the neighborhood kids. No leak down, no break in, just starts it and hands it back. They run the poop out of them, never a problem.
I'm going to try reducing, the coolant flow to the intake side. And I also heard, maybe hogging out the front water jacket. There is alot of meat in that area for the power valve. Do you run a stock radiator? Thanks for your input.

fearlessfred · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:43:08 PM »

the only big bore I have is one of the original ct 310 and it has a stock rad. with no overheating ,not a good comparison

fearlessfred · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:47:41 PM »

I think you will get better help when some of the bigbore guys get on this thread. when I was young I did the same as your son and the crap would run for ever

rsss396 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:50:10 PM »

can you post a picture of the esr head bottom side, i would like to see the dome surface and the coolant passage sizes

The piston is melted away some on the exhaust side so you need more fuel IMO
now running a very hot motor would require more fuel than normal to keep it alive so its very hard to jet a bike that overheats.
HP decreases over 150 degrees and but that does not mean you are over heating just losing power, but when you start getting around 200 you are getting pretty hot IMO

rsss396 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:55:48 PM »

Quote from: F-Red;2549

I'm going to try reducing, the coolant flow to the intake side. And I also heard, maybe hogging out the front water jacket. There is alot of meat in that area for the power valve..

I know ****** touched on this subject about the ESR cylinders having allot of aluminum around the power valve area and I would agree that this needs to be removed to help cool the piston and cylinder better in that area. this should be done fairly easy with a drill bit if you do not have access to a milling machine with a rotary table.

I would not reduce water flow but instead direct more flow up and around the exhaust port for better cooling

rsss396 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:57:05 PM »

hey I did not know carla's name was blocked

F-Red · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:57:06 PM »

Quote from: fearlessfred;2545

I don't have a real answer but I think your on track with the over heating thing .the top of your piston has no transfer wash suggesting that you could run richer on the jetting.I was wondering what the butt gap on the rings were.I ask because of the strange blowby markings at the ring ends

I don't remember off hand, but the rule of .004 per inch of bore. I was within the range.

Quote from: fearlessfred;2553

when I was young I did the same as your son and the crap would run for ever

I know, it freakin kills me! I try to do everything properly, with all the procedures. I still have failure! :sign0065:

etccb · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:04:17 PM »

Did you presure test the coolant system? In dec 2011 there were some cyl that had a possible coolant leak through the ex stud. I had one from this same batch and mine didn't but there were a couple that posted about it in early 2012. That same thing has been seen on some prox in the past as well. Anyway, you posted in early 2012 about having neil do a esr up for you so if this is the same cyl check for a possible coolant leak in the ex stud area.
Good Luck

F-Red · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:10:47 PM »

Quote from: rsss396;2555

can you post a picture of the esr head bottom side, i would like to see the dome surface and the coolant passage sizes

This one is from the bottom side! :eek-new:

F-Red · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:14:57 PM »

Quote from: etccb;2563

Did you presure test the coolant system? In dec 2011 there were some cyl that had a possible coolant leak through the ex stud. I had one from this same batch and mine didn't but there were a couple that posted about it in early 2012. That same thing has been seen on some prox in the past as well. Anyway, you posted in early 2012 about having neil do a esr up for you so if this is the same cyl check for a possible coolant leak in the ex stud area.
Good Luck

Yes, I forgot to mention, it was January of 2012. It is the same cylinder. I did not presure test the system. I have a lot to do.

etccb · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:18:48 PM »

Check it for sure. There were a few reports from around dec 2011 of a possible leak from the ex stud threads breaking into the water jacket on a few cylinders that could possibly lead to some misc problems. Seal the threads up when putting it back together and always do all of the leak tests.
Good luck.

Mr250sx · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:30:19 PM »

Bottom side looks good to me :unconscious: