Author Topic: esr350 coolant leak (Read 15309 times)

patman13mia · « **Reply #30 on:** June 24, 2014, 11:44:19 PM »

yea i gotcha.. i installed the 5mm spacer with a .020 gasket and a .040 havent dome a squish test yet but will soon.. have rode it down the road a couple times today.. a lil choppy past 1/4 throttle.. i have to play with jetting. may do that this weekend.. also i was doin donuts in my driveway and when i cane back to park it my resevoir bottle on my shroud was bubbling like it was boiling.. i need to get a gauge cause this thing is running really hot!!! which i have heard is an issue with these esr cylinders.. i have a oversize fluyidine rad and engine ice/water 50/50..

Bio86 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 25, 2014, 08:26:41 AM »

I wonder if your dome isn't seating well now and pressurizing the coolant system or you're super lean?

Bowtie316 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 25, 2014, 11:33:00 AM »

You need to slow down and make sure everything is right before you start blasting down the road and doing doughnuts in the driveway.

Did you get a new piston? Did you check squish? Did you perform a leak-down test? Do you know what the compression is? What fuel are you running?

Jerry Hall · « **Reply #33 on:** June 25, 2014, 11:42:19 AM »

Quote from: atvcrazy;37480

yea I'm looking at those milled coolant passages and I don't see how the front two cylinder studs have enough material around them to not distort when torquing the head down. Are all these ESR cylinders like that? I was considering getting a builders kit in a 72 mm bore so there's more material for the sleeve but I would be concerned that there was no material left around the water jacket area like this.

I might just big bore a stock jug

The coolant holes do not need to be as large as the ones pictured. If they had 1/2 the area they would still be too large. The size of these holes has nothing to do with the engine overheating and blowing coolant out of the radiator overflow unless the inner o-ring is leaking combustion pressure into the cooling system. The head is suppose to restrict and or control the coolant flow through the cylinder and into the head.

If the coolant is boiling in the radiator, the problem IS NOT IN THE CYLINDER. The cylinder is getting rid of the heat into the coolant but the cooling system is not getting rid of the heat from the coolant.

Making the coolant passages as large as the ones pictured does compromise the rigidity and strength of the top of the cylinder. Reducing the amount of aluminum around the studs and head gasket area will make the bore distort more when the head is torqued. The bore will also experience more distortion and then relax ever time the engine fires when the combustion pressure causes the head to pull on the head studs.

Distortion of the bore when big bore sleeves were installed into the OEM 250 cylinders was one of the main reasons the aftermarket 310 big bore cylinders were created 15 to 20 years ago. Making new casting allowed the cylinder manufactures to move the head studs farther away from the bore and increase the strength (amount of aluminum) in the area where the studs anchor into the upper cylinder. Now we have increased the bore size on these 310 casting to the point that now we are back to some of the original problems we had with the big bore OEM cylinders

I do not see why the manufacturers and engine builders keeps changing the size of these coolant passageways in the cylinder trying to reinvent the wheel...this part of the cylinder is not rocket science

patman13mia · « **Reply #34 on:** June 25, 2014, 11:51:56 AM »

Quote from: Bowtie316;37567

You need to slow down and make sure everything is right before you start blasting down the road and doing doughnuts in the driveway.

Did you get a new piston? Did you check squish? Did you perform a leak-down test? Do you know what the compression is? What fuel are you running?

well not so much blasting.. i havent really gotten past half throttle or 3rd gear. just putting around mostly.. i still have the same piston.. will check squish today when i get home.. leak down test was good. no leaks and held 6 psi for 10 mins.. i cant find my compression tester at all. i think i left it at the dunes.. so dont mnow on that.. i run 110 sunoco with 32:1 honda hpu.. i know i need to check compression and squish and perform a uccr also..

patman13mia · « **Reply #35 on:** June 25, 2014, 12:07:56 PM »

i think i may be loosing coolant somehow.. i filled my radiator up to the top and my overflow half full this past weekend.. now i cant see any fluid in the rad and my over flow is empty.. just dont know where its going. i barley have 45 to an hour tops on this bike. and thats just putting around.. wierd!! i am still waiting on some more o-rings from esr so i can change those out on the top.. should the oring just lay in the grooves really easy or should they have to be stretched just a lil to get em in there? my lay in super easy and i have to push em down in cause one lil area pops up as if its to big. that may be my problemo...

Jerry Hall · « **Reply #36 on:** June 25, 2014, 01:24:14 PM »

Quote from: patman13mia;37572

i think i may be loosing coolant somehow.. i filled my radiator up to the top and my overflow half full this past weekend.. now i cant see any fluid in the rad and my over flow is empty.. just dont know where its going. i barley have 45 to an hour tops on this bike. and thats just putting around.. wierd!! i am still waiting on some more o-rings from esr so i can change those out on the top.. should the oring just lay in the grooves really easy or should they have to be stretched just a lil to get em in there? my lay in super easy and i have to push em down in cause one lil area pops up as if its to big. that may be my problemo...

You are going to continue to have problems until you take the time to check everything and do it right instead of jumping like pop corn popping. How can you expect the o-rings to be possibly sealing when you were holding remnants of an o-ring in your hand in one of the pictures.

If the piston is hitting the head how long do you think the Wiseco crank is going to take the abuse? If the piston is hitting the head, the piston will sometimes lift the head enough to allow the head gasket or o-rings to leak?

If there are cracks in the piston, why are you taking the chance of turning the whole engine into junk when the skirts break off the piston?

How can you expect the engine to stay cool "just putting around"?

Get some help from someone that is not so impatient and willing to take the time to find ALL OF THE PROBLEMS before you put it back together.

The problems you are having are very basic and should not require someone with very much experience to solve the problem

Why ask for help if you are not willing to follow anyone's advice?

atvcrazy · « **Reply #37 on:** June 25, 2014, 01:38:56 PM »

Amen to that. I would seriously pull that motor out of the frame, drop it off at a competent engine builder or someone who really knows what they are doing and get that thing set up correctly so it lasts.

patman13mia · « **Reply #38 on:** June 25, 2014, 01:42:04 PM »

the piston isnt hitting the head any more i have the right size spacer in there now. i have taken my time with the engine i just didnt have the correct parts from esr to begin with. so i tried to make due with what i had. i am taking everybodys advice on what they say and paying attention to what im doing. thats why im figuring out smaller problems as i go. i have to put the damn thing together to see what is wrong other wise i wont know. i cant just guess and say oh well im gona have coolant leaking from the head.. or oh im leaking coolant somewhere.. only way to know is to assemble the engine and run it.. also i cant haul ass down the road cause im still in the break in process so what should i do to see these problems jerry? im listening to your advice but your telling me my water passages are to big as if i can control that.. i am more than capable of installing this engine it isnt my first engine rebuild but it is my first o-ring head rebuild.. i need advice on the questions im asking jerry not smart ass answers that try n chop me down like im an idiot!! im a very respectful guy thats tryna learn. not be talked to like a child..

patman13mia · « **Reply #39 on:** June 25, 2014, 01:45:04 PM »

Quote from: atvcrazy;37577

Amen to that. I would seriously pull that motor out of the frame, drop it off at a competent engine builder or someone who really knows what they are doing and get that thing set up correctly so it lasts.

i can build the bike dude. im just missing small key parts. i think i have the wrong o-rings. do the orings just fit in the grooves easily or do they have to be stretched a lil? mine sit in to easy i think. thats where my issue is

JesseA420 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 25, 2014, 02:12:46 PM »

you put the entire engine back together and rode it around with a piston that is cracked in several places due to an hour of riding it with the piston smashing into the head every stroke.

you seem to not understand the stresses caused internally by this and the issues with running a piston that is broken in several places...... this is what you should focus on. not throwing it all back together so you can spin cookies in the driveway. this is what they are trying to tell you.

rablack21 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 25, 2014, 02:19:03 PM »

Quote from: patman13mia;37580

i can build the bike dude. im just missing small key parts. i think i have the wrong o-rings. do the orings just fit in the grooves easily or do they have to be stretched a lil? mine sit in to easy i think. thats where my issue is

They need to fit in the grooves easily without popping out of the grooves. Because of this, as I think Dave also stated earlier in the thread, the orings may need to be stretched just a bit. This is normal.

patman13mia · « **Reply #42 on:** June 25, 2014, 02:19:40 PM »

alright im gona order a new piston.. i understand what your saying. thats my fault for not realizing the cracks were that much of an issue. i just read all the posts in this thread and i missed a couple the first time around when somebody said get a new one.. ill do that

patman13mia · « **Reply #43 on:** June 25, 2014, 02:20:38 PM »

Quote from: rablack21;37584

They need to fit in the grooves easily without popping out of the grooves. Because of this, as I think Dave also stated earlier in the thread, the orings may need to be stretched just a bit. This is normal.

ok thanks man.. thanks for not bashing me for tryna learn something!!

atvcrazy · « **Reply #44 on:** June 25, 2014, 02:29:36 PM »

new fresh o-rings will need to be stretched a little from my experience with them. Seems like more times than not, the inner o-ring more than the outer. It is pretty common for the o-rings to get those little stringy deals you saw on them this is from the o-rings being squished down when the head is torqued. IT can be worse if the o-ring groove is not cut wide enough, but my guess your's is. One other way to allievate some of this as well is to lube the o-rings like someone mentioned on here. Any kind of paste type lube works. I use silcone type lubricant on mine. If the o-rings aren't don't have alot of material taken off them (like your's have had) they can be reused and it's common for them to seem larger than the area they are filling. The lube also helps hold them in place while you are getting the head put on.

Take your head off and see if you have a cut o-ring meaning torn all the way through. if this isn't the case, put a straight edge accross the top of the cylinder and see if the cylinder sleeve dropped down a bit this would make for the inner o-ring not to seal. If this isn't the case and you are still loosing water, you will need to pressurize your cooling system on the motor and see what's going on. you would do this the same way you pressure test your motor. I don't know much about these ESR cylinders but I have had Pro-X 78 mm bore cylinders leak around the exhaust port and into the pipe cold so once everything heats up, it would get worse.