ESR 330 Questions

[The_Steve_Man]

I am trying to get a plan together and calling upon expertise  
  I am going to do a 330 build. It will be used for everything from dunes to trail riding. I will more than likely have Bubba Ramsey do the porting since he is not that far away from me and I have heard good things about him.
  Should I go with a +4 crank?  And will a powervalve help on bottomend?  I hear different ideas about the big bores makes enough lowend that a pv is not needed. I plan on getting a cylinder that is pv ready anyway.

[Tbone07]

Get the +4mm crank and do away with the PV.  I bet Bubba feels the same way

[rablack21]

I agree with Tbone. Go for the +4mm crank if you are going to put in a new crank anyway. You will enjoy the extra bottom end. I also agree that you should ask Bubba whether you should go with a pv or not, since he will be setting up the motor. Besides, if you get a cylinder that is pv ready, then you can always decide to add on at a later date.

[aberegg05]

I have the esr 330 +4 with the trx9 porting. Has plenty of low end for me on the trails

[The_Steve_Man]

I have wondered about the trx9 porting. I am not looking for a hp monster just a nice all around motor with plenty of power.
Would getting a cylinder with a trx9 porting cause problems if I wanted to have someone else port it later?

[etccb]

4 mil stroke it.
 I like the pv myself but love the pv ready to have the option available to you if not going pv.
To be positive that another builders plans would never desire any heights to be lower then 9 you should start with 7 or #1 ask the builder what he would prefer to have in his hands if you brought it to him in 6 months to a year and order what he recommends. You may be very happy with how you get it if you go with the +100 7 or 9. I think a lot of woods and mx riders may think that they want a lower 4 strokish trx7 style port but their heart and smile wants trx9 style.

[Grande huevos]

I have a esr 330 with 9 port  a 5 pipe and cr ignition, I ride trails 90% the time and dunes couple times a year. Im happy with how my motor performs and it has plenty of power in the trails and it's a blast in the dunes! However if I could go back I would have gotten a +4 crank and sent my cylinder to Neil for better porting for some extra power, cuz let's be real.....can you really have to much?  I have no insight on the pv. It's designed for more grunt so I'm sure it would give you that but it's also another part you have to clean and worry about breaking.

[Bowtie316]

Please read through this thread before going with +4 mil. I went down that road and regretted it but I seem to like gobs of low end grunt.  I ended up with a trx7 port 330 and it fits me perfect.

I have read that ESR can leave the cylinder long so it can more easily be adjusted for the 4mil, but it would have to be planned out and requested prior to ordering.

[Jerry Hall]

The 4mm cranks require different porting, combustion chambers and or spacer plate/base gaskets/cylinder lengths to make the existing cylinders work ok.  

Using a "long" cylinder will not solve this stroker crank dilemma without doing the proper modifications to the ports. The cylinder really needs to be cast for stroke that is going to be used, all though most builders try to use cylinders where the ports were originally cast for a stock stroke.

We have a lot guys bring us built engines that ran real well with the stock stroke, install a stroker crank.  They or their engine builder installs a spacer under the cylinder to allow for the increased stroke and then cannot figure out why the engine does not have the power that was promised or the power of their original cylinder had with the stock stroke crank.  Stroker crank builds require many components and dimensions to be changed to bring all of the engine components into the proper proportions.

[The_Steve_Man]

I will send it to Bubba to do the work. I want it to right with the +4 crank. As for the the pv,  I don't mind spending the extra money to try it. I want to try it with and without to decide for myself.
 I won't be doing anything until after the first of the year but wanted to get a plan together.
 I appreciate everbodys input.

[trx250scar]

The problem is that it's not really "right " when the cylinder is for a 72mm stroke. I am not an expert but I will tell u I am one of the guys who has a 330 4 mil stroke and the cumbustion chamber shape is a poor design when the piston comes over deck height 2mm. In talking with other builders that seems to b a part of my overheating. This motor has never been right from the first time it was started. Bought all new esr cases, cylinder, Carb,pipe as a package and a hot rod Crank I sent to Crank works to have balanced and welded. Wasn't used Parts. Set up by Eddie for the stroke. And I have not rode it more than break in time. It has been a basket case . Several builders claim it's the stroker causing problems.

[Jerry Hall]

The problem is that it's not really "right " when the cylinder is for a 72mm stroke. I am not an expert but I will tell u I am one of the guys who has a 330 4 mil stroke and the cumbustion chamber shape is a poor design when the piston comes over deck height 2mm. In talking with other builders that seems to b a part of my overheating. This motor has never been right from the first time it was started. Bought all new esr cases, cylinder, Carb,pipe as a package and a hot rod Crank I sent to Crank works to have balanced and welded. Wasn't used Parts. Set up by Eddie for the stroke. And I have not rode it more than break in time. It has been a basket case . Several builders claim it's the stroker causing problems.

I am sorry but it sounds like you are another victim of the stroker crank industry and the mystique they have created. Do not feel alone, I have seen similar engine messes like you described and heard similar stories to yours hundreds of times.  Builders that really know their stuff and do a lot of development with pipes and cylinders, do not usually have to resort to using stroker cranks to find the power they are looking for.  Reliable engines with low end power, a wide power band and some serious peak power can be obtained when enough development time is devoted developing a good engine package.

My experience has been  that adding a lot of displacement to an existing engine design is a short cut and cheap alternative to gain power with many undesirable consequences. Customers and builders that use and believe the old phrase...there is no replacement for displacement..... are admitting their limited knowledge on the phenomena that occurs inside engines and how making just one small change, affects the engine as a whole.


The stroker crank is not what is causing your problem.  The problem is the wrong components and modifications were performed trying to use components that were not really designed to work with the stroke you or your engine builder selected.

[etccb]

There are many many many strokers with a dome mod out there running well and tearing it up with zero problems over the years. There have been many set up this way by multiple builders.

[Big_Mike]

Jerry, there IS no replacement for displacement agreeing that providing the entire motor is setup properly from the crank to the heads to the intake to the fuel delivery.

For example a properly setup small block Chevy 350 cubic inch and a properly setup big block Chevy 502 cubic inch, the big block will make a ton more power and torque.  It's not a phenomena or phallacy its fact.

[Jerry Hall]

Jerry, there IS no replacement for displacement agreeing that providing the entire motor is setup properly from the crank to the heads to the intake to the fuel delivery.

For example a properly setup small block Chevy 350 cubic inch and a properly setup big block Chevy 502 cubic inch, the big block will make a ton more power and torque.  It's not a phenomena or phallacy its fact.

I was talking in the context of two stroke racing engines for a particular displacement class not the automotive world.  The technology is so different between two-strokes and automotive engines.


What type of sanctioned racing would allow heads up racing of a 502 inch Chevy and a 350 Chevy other than grudge matches or street racing:sneakiness: