Author Topic: Major Hot Rods Stroker Crank Issue (Read 21394 times)

rablack21 · « **on:** January 08, 2015, 09:33:46 AM »

Disclaimer: This thread is for information to possible consumers out there about a potential problem. This is not a "how to fix the problem" thread. This thread is NOT meant for bashing Hot Rods, though does show my initial frustration. I would never bash a company without giving them the chance to rectify the mistake. If you look at the end of this thread, you will see they did just that. Just know that there might be other cranks in this batch that got out the door as well.

Quick catch up for those that don't know: I am working on assembling my new 363 stroker motor. See the link for additional info.
http://trx250r.org/threads/4726-Little-Engine-That-Could-changed-to-BEAST-MODE

I finished putting my engine together last night. I installed the piston and cylinder and just finished torquing down the cylinder base stud nuts. The piston was at TDC. I started turning the crank to make sure everyone was moving smoothly. The piston moves about 5/8" down from TDC and comes to a hard stop. I look through the intake port and see the stroker crank rod is hitting the cases. I back the piston off and try to go in the reverse direction on the crank. The crank rod hits the cases on the back of the crank rod also. WTF?!!
I call Eddie Sanders for some help where I bought this Hot Rods stroker crank from. Turns out, he had just run into the same issue. He said they just recently changed the color of the rods and were milling the bottom of the crank rod a little differently from before. He didn't think anything about it til he had one hit like mine is doing. Apparently, they are not tapering enough material off of the rod for clearance like they were before. FAIR WARNING TO ANYONE BUYING A 4MM STROKER CRANK SOON, if you get one that has a copper/bronze colored rod, these are the ones that are affected. I'm not sure if there is an issue with any other size stroked rods or not. Eddie is called Hot Rods to discuss this issue this morning and see what can be done. I am so pissed right now! I basically have my engine almost completely back together, already spent lots of time and money having the cases split, installing this new crank, all new seals, bearings, gasket, etc, and now I'm gonna have to tear it all back down again. I told Eddie that the recourse from Hot Rods should be to reimburse me for all of it, but I doubt it. This is a chance for them to do the right thing and fix this. If they do nothing, I will make sure everyone knows about this. This is a genuine design "F" up on their part. I don't have any pics yet to show you guys the crank rod, but I will take some pics when I start disassembling again.

oldschoolr · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:42:59 AM »

Ryan did he notch the cases for the +4 crank? Ive got both new and old style +4 and both required the cases notched.

rablack21 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:54:42 AM »

Doug. I will have to check closer to see. Honestly, I don't think I saw a notch on the cases. My understanding was the +4mm Hot Rods crank was a drop in part, not requiring any additional machining of the cases? Is this not the case? (pun intended)

oldschoolr · « **Reply #3 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:01:32 AM »

When Bubba Ramsey did mine couple years ago he had to notch both sides to clear the longer rod. When I got my new cases and new crank this time I had to do the same before I put the motor together. I can send you pics of my old cases when I get home.

Dirt man · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:02:18 AM »

I thought notching for the +4 was common.

Jerry Hall · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:11:34 AM »

Notching the cases is required on the majority of the stroker cranks I have used over the years.

When using a stroker crank or a aftermarket connecting rod, experienced builders install the piston in the cylinder on one case half with the crank installed and check for this common problem. I have been where you are now. Gaining experience is always painful and expensive.

Hot rods will probably tell you should have checked for clearance before final assembly. Good luck trying to get Hot Rods to compensate you for your time. They will probably try to send you a hat or T-shirt to try to smooth things over

Brian925 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:13:41 AM »

My cases aren't notched and I have a 4mil crank. I have a older one so maybe that's why. I do have a spacer plate. Eddie built my motor like 2 years ago and still going strong with 205psi on snap on compression tester.

rablack21 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:16:59 AM »

Here is the info right from Hot Rods website:
Heavy Duty Drop-in Stroker Crankshafts

In addition to Hot Rods heavy duty OEM replacement crankshafts, Hot Rods also offers a full line of drop-in stroker crankshafts. Not only do these stroker cranks bring about a heightened level of performance and increased displacement, but do so without costly case machining, custom cam chains or spacer plates. Better yet, many Hot Rods stroker cranks even utilize the engine's stock piston.
Additional Hot Rods stroker crankshaft features:

All stroker crankshafts are sold complete and ready for installation with the original proven Hot Rods connecting rods, top end bearings and crankshaft webs
Factory assembled and trued

For additional information such as stroke gain and displacement increase, see the individual products listings. Also be sure to check out our installation videos on YouTube.

It says it right there in black and white. Drop in stroker crank. No case machining. And it lists MY CRANK part number right there on the first page.
http://www.hotrodsproducts.com/productinfo.aspx?cat_id=11

Jerry Hall · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:21:51 AM »

Quote from: rablack21;48455

Here is the info right from Hot Rods website:
Heavy Duty Drop-in Stroker Crankshafts

In addition to Hot Rods heavy duty OEM replacement crankshafts, Hot Rods also offers a full line of drop-in stroker crankshafts. Not only do these stroker cranks bring about a heightened level of performance and increased displacement, but do so without costly case machining, custom cam chains or spacer plates. Better yet, many Hot Rods stroker cranks even utilize the engine's stock piston.
Additional Hot Rods stroker crankshaft features:

All stroker crankshafts are sold complete and ready for installation with the original proven Hot Rods connecting rods, top end bearings and crankshaft webs
Factory assembled and trued

For additional information such as stroke gain and displacement increase, see the individual products listings. Also be sure to check out our installation videos on YouTube.

It says it right there in black and white. Drop in stroker crank. No case machining. And it lists MY CRANK part number right there on the first page.
http://www.hotrodsproducts.com/productinfo.aspx?cat_id=11

Before you talk to them try installing an OEM cylinder and piston on the cases an see if the rod hits the cases.

rablack21 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:25:46 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Hall;48456

Before you talk to them try installing an OEM cylinder and piston on the cases an see if the rod hits the cases.

What is the purpose for this?

oldschoolr · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:35:13 AM »

Im not sure Ryan but I have the same crank "newer style with copper rod" and had to notch mine just like my old set up.

Jerry Hall · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:40:13 AM »

Quote from: rablack21;48457

What is the purpose for this?

Hot Rods will probably say that it is "drop in" for OEM cylinders and pistons and cannot possibly check to see if their cranks will fit every possible combination that the end user can put together. My experience dealing with them on issues over the years has not been good. I do not think that it will make any difference what cylinder or piston you use but it seems they will try to dodge the blame.

The wrist pin is not centered in most pistons. (from front to back) If the pin offset is different on the ESR pistons than the OEM piston it could cause the rod to hit on one side of the case but probably not hit on the other case when rotated in the opposite direction.

Bio86 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2015, 01:21:19 PM »

I've had to make clearance for my +4's as well.

rablack21 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2015, 01:50:21 PM »

Just got off the phone with Eddie. He said that he talked to Hot Rods. They were looking into the matter and going to call him back. They were going to look at the older style and the newer style and compare the 2. Eddie told me he has been using these same stroker cranks for years without having to make additional clearance, and that he never had an issue with any of them until they switched to this new style. If it is their intention for builders to still have to clearance the cases, then it is straight up false advertising. Eddie said he would call me back this afternoon after hearing back from them.

Dirt man · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2015, 04:15:42 PM »

My friend and I both had to do a small notch on our 370's with +4 hot rods. The notch is toward the top front of the crank case. The rod hits halfway between the piston and main rod bearing. It can be notched without separating the cases if you want to risk it. Use a vacuum to suck shavings as you grind.