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Author Topic: son of a b!#$%  (Read 19735 times)

Offline dem3500

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 05:31:48 AM »
Quote from: d-rock;50964
I had the engine assembled last 2 weeks ago. But the paint looked shity , so I pulled it apart again and sent the cases out. All of the new bearings were tight in the cases, now they are loose. There is no power on the inside at all. It was taped off. The power coating is called sparkle silver. Then cleared. I don't know if it was actually powder coated twice, maybe that was the problem. Too much heat maybe.
The cases are from a 85 atc engine that has never ran but was assembled.

Yea it would be baked twice with the clear coat. If it was taped off then I'm baffeled as to the cause of your problem. Have you called them to talk about it?
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Offline dem3500

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 05:35:10 AM »
Quote from: udontknowme;50968
im not familiar with powder coating. do you bake the parts at 400f for a hour or something like that ?


Yes 400 deg. It would be in the oven for around 2 hrs, possibly more. Which (as far as I know) is below the temp that would cause any metallurgy change in the metal.
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Offline dem3500

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 05:37:30 AM »
Does anybody have a crap case that can be tossed in the oven for a couple hrs and measure the bearing race before and after?
On and I've powdered a engine cylinder and head before as well without any problems.
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Offline Burns363R

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 06:44:12 AM »
400 degrees will not affect aluminum like that.  Something else has happened.
TRX 363R 02- Laeger Narrow Frame/CR500 Link, Motowoz Suspension, Roll Design +4 LT Arms,RPM Dominator +4 axle, LED 363 MX, LED 350G Pipe, 38 A/S CR Ignition

TRX 370R 86- Laeger Std,ISF-No Link Swinger, JD MGC LT Arms) Motowoz Shocks, LED 370/350D pipe, 38 PWK Carb, CR Ignition

Offline JesseA420

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 07:36:39 AM »
what do the surfaces look like? pics pls
Quote from: Hawaiiysr;66760
Yup i sucked the head. taste like dirt.

[/FONT]

Offline pinned250r

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 08:05:51 AM »
Have you called the powder coater? See what they say. Regardless of what happened, they're kn the hook
I ride PINNED! Therefore, no bdt in this household.

Offline Hurley250R

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2015, 08:24:57 AM »
Are you saying that you left the bearings in the cases and sent it to powdercoat and now they fall out?

Offline fourtrax

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2015, 08:39:34 AM »
Did you have the bearings in the garage (cold) and the cases room temp? Just a thought..

Offline Skeans1

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2015, 08:55:13 AM »
Seems like Jerry Hall has said they have had problems with powder coating cases before just can't remember if it was on here or the Quadracer site. But they did exactly what you described you may pm him and see what he says.


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Offline fx4pitrone

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2015, 09:43:47 AM »
Quote from: Skeans1;50980
Seems like Jerry Hall has said they have had problems with powder coating cases before just can't remember if it was on here or the Quadracer site. But they did exactly what you described you may pm him and see what he says.


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I remember this too from there.... I think Q said something about it also....

Offline Jerry Hall

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2015, 10:53:46 AM »
Metallurgical fact:  The temper of most aluminum alloys are changed anytime the temperature exceeds 300 deg. The temper clock starts clicking when the temperature crosses through around 300 deg. and clicks faster the higher the temperature is raised.  Most paint powders require the temperature to be above 400 deg F. for at least an hour.

It is unfortunate that your Powder Coater did not have the integrity and or the experience to tell you this fact before he took your money. I have seen this happen hundreds of times over the years and have made posts on this forum warning of the consequences of the powder coating.  Most of the powder coaters in the Phoenix area also do not believe and will deny that they are ruining parts with their process.  Again,   NEVER POWER COAT ANY PRECISION ALUMINUM PART!!    There is nothing you can do once the part has been cooked and the dimensions are altered by heat treating.

A powder coater down the street from me ruined a bikers Harley heads.  The biker confronted the owner of the powder coat shop and wanted him to buy him new heads.  The powder coat shop owner told him to get lost.  The bikers came back, wrecked his shop and put the guy in the hospital.  This shop never reopened.

Another power coat shop ruined a batch of aluminum parts that one of my customers manufactures.  The customer took the powder coat shop to court.  The court awarded my customer over $10,000.00.  This shop closed its doors.

Also, the baking process that many automotive engine rebuilders are using to clean engine parts also changes the temper and alters the dimensions of the heads, engine blocks that they clean.  This process raises the temperature of the components that they clean to around 600 deg. F.  Most of the guys that are using these cleaning processes and the companies manufacturing the cleaning equipment are uninformed and not aware that they are changing the metallurgical properties of parts they are cleaning!

Offline dem3500

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2015, 10:58:33 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Hall;50983
Metallurgical fact:  The temper of most aluminum alloys are changed anytime the temperature exceeds 300 deg. The temper clock starts clicking when the temperature crosses through around 300 deg. and clicks faster the higher the temperature is raised.  Most paint powders require the temperature to be above 400 deg F. for at least an hour.

It is unfortunate that your Powder Coater did not have the integrity and or the experience to tell you this fact before he took your money. I have seen this happen hundreds of times over the years and have made posts on this forum warning of the consequences of the powder coating.  Most of the powder coaters in the Phoenix area also do not believe and will deny that they are ruining parts with their process.  Again,   NEVER POWER COAT ANY PRECISION ALUMINUM PART!!    There is nothing you can do once the part has been cooked and the dimensions are altered by heat treating.

A powder coater down the street from me ruined a bikers Harley heads.  The biker confronted the owner of the powder coat shop and wanted him to buy him new heads.  The powder coat shop owner told him to get lost.  The bikers came back, wrecked his shop and put the guy in the hospital.  This shop never reopened.

Another power coat shop ruined a batch of aluminum parts that one of my customers manufactures.  The customer took the powder coat shop to court.  The court awarded my customer over $10,000.00.  This shop closed its doors.

Also, the baking process that many automotive engine rebuilders are using to clean engine parts also changes the temper and alters the dimensions of the heads, engine blocks that they clean.  This process raises the temperature of the components that they clean to around 600 deg. F.  Most of the guys that are using these cleaning processes and the companies manufacturing the cleaning equipment are uninformed and not aware that they are changing the metallurgical properties of parts they are cleaning!


Wow! Crazy! I'm glad I know this now. Thanks for posting it!
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Offline JesseA420

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2015, 11:21:26 AM »
i believe there are low cure temp powders just for these purposes.
Quote from: Hawaiiysr;66760
Yup i sucked the head. taste like dirt.

[/FONT]

Offline Jerry Hall

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2015, 12:15:10 PM »
Quote from: JesseA420;50985
i believe there are low cure temp powders just for these purposes.


......... then..............Why are powder coat shops still using the high temp. powders and ruining parts?  Surely they can recognise an aluminum part that needs to maintain its original strength and dimension and tell the customer that they need to use a different product or process.

Offline JesseA420

son of a b!#$%
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2015, 12:29:11 PM »
Quote from: Hawaiiysr;66760
Yup i sucked the head. taste like dirt.

[/FONT]

 

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