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Author Topic: Motor rebuild project 86 piston in 87/9 long rod motor  (Read 8697 times)

Offline Grande huevos

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2015, 09:21:58 AM »
Quote from: mx250r91;56291
You would take the head off, put a spark plug in, place a flat piece of lexan with a small hole in it across the gasket face of the head and fill the head using a burette to measure the volume. Sounds like you did a good job putting it together and it is running good. Did you perform a static compression test on it yet for reference?

We are working on getting a quality gauge from a friend so we can do compression test before he does any riding other then heat cycle. also going to build a setup so we can do a leak down test for piece of mind

Offline Pumashine

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 09:30:56 AM »
Quote from: Grande huevos;56313
you don't want any more then 14:1 comp ratio, in order to get there he would have to buy a new head with 20cc dome
The builder then puts the dome back in the lathe and takes a lil more off going by experience. Put the head back on and remeasure
Puma 408, Puma 431,  Pilot 412, Puma 431, Mini-tooth 486 Trx450r
89mm  Mini tooth Shearer in frame pipe chromed! With Cascade  Q

Offline mx250r91

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 11:18:25 AM »
Quote from: Grande huevos;56313
we performed a uccr test with the motor assembled had the piston TDC then added oil and measured. It came out to 15cc plus 1/2cc for the spark plug so that's why we were thinking its a 15cc dome... That seems small but I don't know what a oem head has machined into it.  If I've read everything correct you don't want any more then 14:1 comp ratio, in order to get there he would have to buy a new head with 20cc dome

That 15cc measurement you came up with is not your dome volume it is your trapped volume, which is a function of dome volume, head gasket volume, deck height volume (if not set at zero) and piston crown volume.

Where did you hear that you don't want anymore than 14:1? What octane fuel are you planning on running?

Offline Grande huevos

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 12:14:08 PM »
Quote from: mx250r91;56318
That 15cc measurement you came up with is not your dome volume it is your trapped volume, which is a function of dome volume, head gasket volume, deck height volume (if not set at zero) and piston crown volume.

Where did you hear that you don't want anymore than 14:1? What octane fuel are you planning on running?

I just thought 14:1 is where it should be. Im simply basing this off what I've read in other post and builds that guys do. Usually the guys that have 200-220 psi is at 14:1  I've also read that 230 is kinda a thin line that you shouldn't cross unless you want a time bomb???  I'm not a motor builder by any means that's why I'm posting so many questions. I jut want my buddy to have a good strong running motor to have fun on without to much worry of it blowing up from pushing to much compression ... we will take his head back off and measure the dome itself... I guess we misunderstood how the uccr worked.   Also he will be running VP 110 straight with maximum pre mix I believe. 4 oz per gallon of fuel

Offline C-Leigh Racing

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 01:44:35 PM »
When I am ccing the trapped cylinder volume @ TDC, before I torque the head down, I'll smear a bit of grease on the edge of the piston to seal off the rings so none of the oil will go down beside the piston. Then once the head is on, I use a plug hole dial indicator & find correct TDC & then lock the crank down in that spot so it cant rotate & get off TDC.

Your only getting the trapped cylinder volume when your ccing like that & not a true head dome volume.
Head dome volume cc, is as detailed earlier with using a flat plate over the gasket surface of the head, sealed good with the spark plug in place & then inject the oil in & note the total cc amount.

Just by reading what your saying so far, that you've already ran that engine a few times & it was not a monster to kick over to start up, I would say the compression shouldnt be to high, nothing over normal that would kill the engine if left as is.
Now if it was a bugger to kick over to start up, hurt your foot with boots on, then I would say you better be ready to hang on when riding & be on your toes jetting that carb before you put a foot on that kicker, (every time) & use good quality race gas so you wont melt another piston down.

This is to any & every 250R owner.
It makes no difference who built a 2 stroke engine, being the highest quality it could be built, be it Allen @ CT Racing, Arlan @ LED or even BDT building it, that engine will run no better or last no longer, than how much that person knows that is tuning on that carb feeding it gas mix.
That carb is feeding it what keeps it alive, so when you skimp on that, your making its life shorter.

A 2 stroke is simple in design & simple to make it have a long life, so we shouldnt try to over comp things when dealing with them.
Compression ratios are like dyno readings, thats all they are to either list or brag about & when its all said & done, either your foot or your butt will give you the true reading of what that engine is doing before & after it is running.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline Grande huevos

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 09:21:36 PM »
He stuck a gauge on tonight with a cold motor and got just over 240.    Think she's safe to run?

Offline mx250r91

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 07:07:10 AM »
Quote from: Grande huevos;56367
He stuck a gauge on tonight with a cold motor and got just over 240.    Think she's safe to run?

Has the exhaust port been raised much or at all?

If it hasn't I would run it. My XC engine after a rebuild cranks ~245 psi. You should have a nice grunt engine there with good low end power but don't expect it to rev to the moon. Re-read Neil's post, he's right on the money; use high quality fuel and jet conservatively.

Offline C-Leigh Racing

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2015, 11:21:52 AM »
Man, 240 lbs, grunt & go baby.
Quality race gas & dont guess on the jetting. Its always better to be on the rich side to keep the piston cool, keep from melting it, because you have the compression to burn all you can put in the cylinder.

I've had some guys tell me, they were pumping over 300 lbs on an OEM cylinder, but honestly I didnt know if I believed them or not. I know I've never had one pump that high, not an OEM jug.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline Grande huevos

Motor rebuild project
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2015, 02:48:06 PM »
Thanks to all the guys that took the time to read through this thread and help out.  I think hes gonna do some break in this weekend I will post an update on how it goes!

 

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