TRX250r.org

Author Topic: Transmission Treatments  (Read 3246 times)

Offline Anthony0327

Transmission Treatments
« on: July 20, 2015, 11:52:40 PM »
There has been much talk about different Transmission treatment in the past. I understand the Cryogenic Treatment of the gears but am interested in the Microblueing Treatment of the gears an moving parts. The process start with micro polishing then the MicroBlueing. The blueing I'm told is blasted on and actually becomes part of the metal not adhered on with adhesive. Does anyone have any experience with this and if so does it really reduce wear as much as the companies who provide these services claim. Anyone with experience running a trans treated by this process input would be greatly appreciated. Also was wondering about the undercutting where the gears engage and if that really helps as well. I figured if these things really pro long the life of the parts I was thinking of having it done before building my engine. I have all new parts going in and Anything that could help things last longer is a plus in my book. Thanks In advance for any info.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 12:46:12 AM by Anthony0327 »

Offline Jerry Hall

Transmission Treatments
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 06:39:43 PM »
Quote from: Anthony0327;56246
There has been much talk about different Transmission treatment in the past. I understand the Cryogenic Treatment of the gears but am interested in the Microblueing Treatment of the gears an moving parts. The process start with micro polishing then the MicroBlueing. The blueing I'm told is blasted on and actually becomes part of the metal not adhered on with adhesive. Does anyone have any experience with this and if so does it really reduce wear as much as the companies who provide these services claim. Anyone with experience running a trans treated by this process input would be greatly appreciated. Also was wondering about the undercutting where the gears engage and if that really helps as well. I figured if these things really pro long the life of the parts I was thinking of having it done before building my engine. I have all new parts going in and Anything that could help things last longer is a plus in my book. Thanks In advance for any info.

What are your expectations after the transmission treatments?  More power?  Much longer gear life?  

Are you experiencing premature transmission failures?  Are you experiencing a lot of missed shifts, and or the transmission jumping out of gear?

Offline Anthony0327

Transmission Treatments
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 12:06:22 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Hall;56355
What are your expectations after the transmission treatments?  More power?  Much longer gear life?  

Are you experiencing premature transmission failures?  Are you experiencing a lot of missed shifts, and or the transmission jumping out of gear?


Jerry, I'm not experiencing any problems whatsoever. I'm in the process of building my bike and was wondering if these treatments pro long the gear life most of all. Every part of my engine is brand new, every nut, bolt, washer, gear., Everything. I was researching these to see if it would be worth doing on my new trans, shift forks and drum or any other moving internal engine part. Like I said just trying to get info to see if it's worth while to do it on my NOS stuff before I put my engine back together. Thanks for your reply.

Offline Jerry Hall

Transmission Treatments
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 11:31:02 AM »
Quote from: Anthony0327;56377
Jerry, I'm not experiencing any problems whatsoever. I'm in the process of building my bike and was wondering if these treatments pro long the gear life most of all. Every part of my engine is brand new, every nut, bolt, washer, gear., Everything. I was researching these to see if it would be worth doing on my new trans, shift forks and drum or any other moving internal engine part. Like I said just trying to get info to see if it's worth while to do it on my NOS stuff before I put my engine back together. Thanks for your reply.

If everything is new I would not spend money on any of the treatments.  My experience indicates that there are other areas where I would spend my money.  I would spend my money on more frequent oil changes, better porting and pipes.  I have not seen many problems with the load carrying surfaces on the teeth on Honda gears.  The corners of the latching dogs and sockets will get rounded over time and surface treatments will not do much to prevent this from occurring.

Back cutting appeals to our intuition of "sucking the gear into full depth of engagement" but does very little, except on the override transmissions.  We back cut gears in our shop but not not recommend it, unless you are trying to save an obsolete gear that has the dogs rounded off.  Back cutting, cuts through the case hardening, making the new surface "soft".  Many guys that have had their gears back cut swear that they miss less shifts but they would have had similar results if they had just put new gears and shift forks when they repaired the transmission.  If we cut an angle that is actually steep enough to suck the gear into it's full engagement depth, it will not disengage freely and result in missed shifts on a conventional transmission.(non override)

Cryo-treating the gears will help relieve stresses a little bit, but still will not prevent 2nd gear from breaking in half if the transmission is abused.

Offline Anthony0327

Transmission Treatments
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 03:54:53 PM »
Thanks for explaining and giving me your input Jerry Hall. Very much appreciated. I have spent money on things you mentioned such as porting and after market pipe. There won't be any unnessasary load on my trans. Only doing a stock top end with port work and a higher compression after market head (19cc Cool Head) on race fuel. How often do you recommend changing the oil after riding and also is there any additives you recommend during the first few hours of use or that wear in period? I want to make sure after built this bike lasts me a long time and I protect the new parts as much as I can. My bike will not be raced or anything like that but will be built in such a way I could if wanted to

Offline Jerry Hall

Transmission Treatments
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 04:47:25 PM »
Quote from: Anthony0327;56408
Thanks for explaining and giving me your input Jerry Hall. Very much appreciated. I have spent money on things you mentioned such as porting and after market pipe. There won't be any unnessasary load on my trans. Only doing a stock top end with port work and a higher compression after market head (19cc Cool Head) on race fuel. How often do you recommend changing the oil after riding and also is there any additives you recommend during the first few hours of use or that wear in period? I want to make sure after built this bike lasts me a long time and I protect the new parts as much as I can. My bike will not be raced or anything like that but will be built in such a way I could if wanted to

With the constant gear mesh type transmission that use the dog and socket type latching system (used in nearly all motorcycle transmissions), a microscopic piece of metal is knocked off the corner of the shift dog and socket EVERY TIME a shift is made.  You will see these microscopic pieces in the oil and makes the oil look like the metallic dust in metallic paint.  This metallic dust concentration and clutch plate material increases until the oil is changed and then we start over and begin adding new metallic and clutch dust to the new oil.  I have not seen expensive transmission oil reduce the rate that this metallic dust accumulates over the cheapest oil, guys pour into their transmissions.

The metallic dust in the oil circulates through the bearings and between the load carrying surfaces of the gear teeth and between the clutch plates until the oil is changed.  I think that it is better to change the oil 3 or 4 times with a cheap oil than run the expensive transmission oil for the same time period that spanned the 3 to 4 oil changes of the cheap oil.

Offline zcarlson12

Transmission Treatments
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 07:18:54 PM »
I change my oil after every race with the Honda HP trans oil in the red bottle. People swear by the Rotella T as well. Thanks for the further explanation of the various trans mods.
Laeger 310R

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38