TRX250r.org

Author Topic: Atf  (Read 9946 times)

Offline dem3500

Atf
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2016, 03:30:03 PM »
Yes I've been inside a auto trans. Quite familiar with it. All I'm stating is I don't believe there's any benefit to running atf. All its doing is costing more cause you have to replace it all the time. I do use it here and there to clean out my trans. I blast it around the yard a few times then drain it and put regular oil in it
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Offline jto1

Atf
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2016, 04:29:03 PM »
Ams oil 0-40  atv oil for me, atf doesn't last long enough for wet cluthes imo. It is a good flushing oil though, has a lot of detergents that will clean the system well.

Offline Skeans1

Atf
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2016, 04:54:17 PM »
Quote from: dem3500;69603
Yes I've been inside a auto trans. Quite familiar with it. All I'm stating is I don't believe there's any benefit to running atf. All its doing is costing more cause you have to replace it all the time. I do use it here and there to clean out my trans. I blast it around the yard a few times then drain it and put regular oil in it

With the price of an engine oil anymore are you really spending more when a quart is around a dollar?

Offline dem3500

Atf
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2016, 04:56:44 PM »
Quote from: Skeans1;69606
With the price of an engine oil anymore are you really spending more when a quart is around a dollar?

$1!? Where are you buying your oil from? The dollar store? I don't know of any wet clutch engine oil that's anywhere near that price.
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Offline Skeans1

Atf
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2016, 05:09:38 PM »
Quote from: dem3500;69607
$1!? Where are you buying your oil from? The dollar store? I don't know of any wet clutch engine oil that's anywhere near that price.
I buy everything by the 55 gallon drum or bigger bulk.

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Offline dem3500

Atf
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 05:11:25 PM »
Ah ok. Most people do not buy it that way so you really can't compare a quart at $1 for most people
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Offline atvcrazy

Atf
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2016, 11:07:46 AM »
Redline trans oil for my bikes.  Thicker style oil designed to take some of the shock off gears so excellent film strength between gears.  I'm not so concerned with clutch life you can get new replacement clutch plates pretty cheap.  I worry more about film strength on our 30 plus year old tranny's I would pick the 15-40 over ATF

Offline JTRtrx250r

Atf
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2016, 02:28:53 PM »
Ive been running RotellaT in my sportbikes for 10 yrs, and been happy with it, but cant run anything thick or heavy in my R or it feels like the clutch slips... its always been that way. I just change often
- Jeremy -

Big Thanks to Pest/ hoppedrap, wont ever forget!!

Offline Big_Mike

Atf
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2016, 03:30:25 PM »
Another member here all about the red bottle!



I've been running it for as long as I can remember, I run it in my 250R, CR500 and my banshee...  And change your oil often!  Regardless of what type of oil you run!!

Offline Jerry Hall

Atf
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2016, 07:08:25 PM »
Transmissions that share the same oil as the transmission have a unique problem.  Gear life would be extended if a hypoid type gear oil that had a true viscosity of at least 90wt.  Clutch life would be at it's best if the viscosity of the transmission oil was about 1wt.  The engineers from the major manufacturers have tested all types of oils and transmission fluids.  They have found the types of oils and viscosities that give the best overall clutch and gear life without robbing a lot of power from the viscous oil drag created by the clutch basket churning heavy viscosity oils in the clutch compartment.  

Put your engine on a dyno and fill the transmission to the recommended level with the recommended oil.  Run the engine on the dyno and record the power and oil temperature.  Now overfill the transmission by adding an extra pint.  Run the engine on the dyno and record the power and oil temperature.  Now overfill the transmission so that it is overfilled by 1 quart. Run the engine and record the power and oil temperature.  Now drain the oil completely and fill with SAE 90 wt or 140 wt hypoid gear to the recommended level.  Run the engine on the dyno and record the power.  Now drain the transmission and fill with ATF or with one of the zero to 5 wt multigrade automotive engine oils.  Run the engine on the dyno and record the power and oil temperature.

The summary of your test results will look something like this:

Best power.....had light viscosity oils like zero to 5wt or ATF filled to the recommended oil level
Lowest power......had the highest oil level of the oil recommended by the manufactures and or the 140 wt oil at the recommended oil level.  
Lowest oil temperature ..........light viscosity oils like zero to 5wt or ATF at the recommended oil level
Highest oil temperature.........had the highest oil level of the oil recommended by the manufacturers.  2.  Next highest oil temperature was the one that was overfilled by 1 pint or had the 140 wt oil and the recommended oil level.
Least clutch slip.........light viscosity oils like zero to 5wt or ATF filled to the recommended oil level
Had the most clutch slip..........140 wt hypoid gear oil and then the test that had the highest oil level of the oil recommended by the manufacturers

A clutch basket running in a high oil level can consume a lot of power.  Power is consumed by the unnecessary turbulence and viscous drag created by the basket running in a higher than necessary oil level in the clutch cover.  The power loss is converted to heating the transmission oil.  

We cannot accurately evaluate which of the light viscosity oils would provide the longest gear life in our short term type of test in the lab.  Accurate gear life type test require inspection of a large number of transmissions where the oil type, oil change intervals and severity of service can be well documented .  Historically gear life has been extended with higher viscosity type oils or the newer synthetic type of oils where high oil temps are prevalent.  

If we look at the above observed trends, I see trends that seems to match up with what most manufactures of two stroke engines with wet clutches recommend.  The manufacturers typically recommend a multi-grade light wt oil like 10w30 or 20w40. The engineers have found that the light weight oils reduce clutch slip, minimize power life and give acceptable gear life.  

I have used ATF type F in thousands of two stroke race engines over the years without observing accelerated gear ware.  I would not recommend ATF in any of the Suzuki off road two stroke engines.  I have seen what I consider accelerated gear ware in Suzuki's off road transmissions and I do not believe it is a lubrication related problem.  I believe that Suzuki has been cutting corners the last 40 years or so on their gear materials and heat treat in their off road transmissions.  I have not see the same metallurgical trends on their sport bike and other street bike transmissions.


For clarity in the above statements:  "High oil levels were Oil levels above the manufacturer's recommended oil level.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 12:16:58 PM by Jerry Hall »

Offline The norm

Atf
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2016, 11:16:28 PM »
Thanks Jerry that is great information.
1986 Trx250r-- Hybrid Engineering 391(Good bye super 310)
1986 Trx250r-- Hybrid Engineering  ported stock 86 cylinder
1986 Trx250r-- craigslist engine with unknown ported 89 cylinder.
1985 Atc250r-- Needs a lot of work (Super 310's new home)

Offline Big_Mike

Atf
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2016, 10:08:36 AM »
That is excellent information thank you Jerry!  I read it 3 times just to make sure I understood everything you said correctly!

Offline JTRtrx250r

Atf
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2016, 02:32:59 PM »
Yep, good info, makes total sense and its pretty much my experience with my R. I'm a 10- 40'er in mine and try and keep it fresh
- Jeremy -

Big Thanks to Pest/ hoppedrap, wont ever forget!!

 

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