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Author Topic: how to paint cylinder  (Read 11223 times)

Offline evaneyeball

how to paint cylinder
« on: February 16, 2020, 04:26:48 PM »
so i am going to be powder coating my engine cases a anodized red and i want my cylinder to be a flat black and the head to be the same color as the cases and ive heard  that you cant powder coat a cylinder or head because it will get too hot. and im doing the powder coating on my own so its not like i can just ask the guy thats powder coating them because im doing it. and so can i powder coat them or do i have to do something like cerakoate.
LED built 86 trx 350 CEO
81 ATC250r
Zero finesse and alot of throttle

Online croat1

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2020, 08:50:59 PM »
Same say powder coating cases is ok to do others say not to.  Same with powder coating cylinders and heads.  I’ve never had engine parts powder coated.  I’m ok with rattle cans for the cases and a blasted/dull look for the cylinder and head.  I think the concern is the heat in the top end....but it’s water cooled.  Now as far as cases I’d say the concern is warpage and damaged bearing bores.  I’m not a metallurgist nor a degreed engineer. 

Joe
A few Laegers
1987 oem
2025 Yamaha Raptor 700R
Mission: Back to Basics.  On the trail or dune

Offline The norm

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2020, 09:30:59 PM »
I always paint the cases and cylinder/head. For the head and cylinder I use valspar plastikote rebuilders finish. It looks pretty good.

1986 Trx250r-- Hybrid Engineering 391(Good bye super 310)
1986 Trx250r-- Hybrid Engineering  ported stock 86 cylinder
1986 Trx250r-- craigslist engine with unknown ported 89 cylinder.
1985 Atc250r-- Needs a lot of work (Super 310's new home)

Offline The norm

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 09:35:32 PM »
My builder (Pete @ Hybrid Engineering) strongly suggests that you do not powder coat cases. The heat can soften the aluminum and your main bearing bores will get loose. The cases were heat treated after casting by Honda. When you heat them over a certain temperature for a extended period it will anneal the aluminum. That can cause a big time failure. But! I have seen a ton of atv and motorcycle engine cases running around that were powder coated. I just choose paint.
Loren
1986 Trx250r-- Hybrid Engineering 391(Good bye super 310)
1986 Trx250r-- Hybrid Engineering  ported stock 86 cylinder
1986 Trx250r-- craigslist engine with unknown ported 89 cylinder.
1985 Atc250r-- Needs a lot of work (Super 310's new home)

Offline evaneyeball

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 11:32:44 PM »
i think i will powder coat all the parts because if i cant use those colors it ruins the whole build.
LED built 86 trx 350 CEO
81 ATC250r
Zero finesse and alot of throttle

Offline evaneyeball

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 11:35:39 PM »
the cases and head will be the red on the water pump cover and the cylinder will be the black on the clutch cover. the color dosent really show in the pitures and so i had to use a filter on them to get the color to show better. it does look alot better in person
LED built 86 trx 350 CEO
81 ATC250r
Zero finesse and alot of throttle

Offline Jerry Hall

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2020, 05:32:37 PM »
My builder (Pete @ Hybrid Engineering) strongly suggests that you do not powder coat cases. The heat can soften the aluminum and your main bearing bores will get loose. The cases were heat treated after casting by Honda. When you heat them over a certain temperature for a extended period it will anneal the aluminum. That can cause a big time failure. But! I have seen a ton of atv and motorcycle engine cases running around that were powder coated. I just choose paint.
Loren

The above is very true!

I cannot count the number of times customers have had the structural integrity of aluminum parts ruined because they had them powered coated.  Any time an aluminum part is raised over 300 deg. F the temper of aluminum starts to change.....the higher the temperature above 300 deg F...the faster the temper clocks ticks.  Most of the powders coats require over 350 deg F to cure.

I do not recommend Powder Coating any aluminum parts, unless your are building a museum Queen and do not care about the strength, and thermal aspects of your engine parts.

I want my customers engines to get rid of as much of the waste heat as possible without having to depend entirely on the radiator. The cooling system actually consists of all of the external surfaces of the engine cases, cylinder, head, radiator, and hoses. 

Paint is a thermal barrier or better know as an insulator.  Powder coat paint is a better insulator than conventional paint because it is much thicker.  Polishing a surface will have a similar effect as painting a surface. Polishing/painting a surface reduces the amount of heat that can be radiated off hot engines surfaces.  The emmisive power of a sandblasted aluminum surface is almost 5 times higher than that of a polished aluminum surface.  The emmisive power of a powder coated surface is much less than that of a polished surface.  The emmisive power is a number that engineers use to compare the amount of heat that can be radiated from the surface of different materials with different surface textures.


In summary:

The following list will show the type of surface or surface treatment that will radiate the most heat.  Number 1 will radiate the most heat and 6 the least amount of heat.

1.  Sandblasted or heavily oxidized
2.  Machined surface
3.  Polished surface
4.  Painted
5.  Polished Chrome plated surface
6.  Powdered coated

Numbers 3 and 4 could trade places depending upon the type of paint and thickness

Do everything you can to help reduce the amount of heat your radiator has to dissipate.  Your cylinder and head probably have at least 50 times more surface area than those finned aluminum gadgets that many guys insert into their radiator hose in an attempt to make their engines run cooler.

Polishing and paint makes things look a lot nicer and easier to keep clean.  The big question is:  Do you want to keep your engine components as cool as possible or build a Museum Queen?

Offline havinnoj

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2020, 06:01:50 PM »
My builder (Pete @ Hybrid Engineering) strongly suggests that you do not powder coat cases. The heat can soften the aluminum and your main bearing bores will get loose. The cases were heat treated after casting by Honda. When you heat them over a certain temperature for a extended period it will anneal the aluminum. That can cause a big time failure. But! I have seen a ton of atv and motorcycle engine cases running around that were powder coated. I just choose paint.
Loren

This & this.  Just paint or polish.

Offline evaneyeball

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2020, 08:44:11 PM »
i checked and have an oversized radiator with bigger hoses,moving a lot more coolant than stock wich should cool everything alot better. and this thing will be babied it will be a sand princess. i mainly do jumps and sand trails. actually im pretty sure arlan told me to powder coat the cases. so i think im just going to powdercoat. plus its pretty easy for me to powder coat the cylinder because i do it all in my shop.
LED built 86 trx 350 CEO
81 ATC250r
Zero finesse and alot of throttle

Offline broken1

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2020, 08:48:21 PM »
I knew there was a reason why I like the look of raw aluminum & Mr. Hall just validated that in great detail. Thank you sir!

Offline Michael88R

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2020, 09:49:16 PM »
Thank you Mr Hall.  Your contributions are appreciated.
88’ R Esr 350 CEO, Esr trx5 pipe
88’ R Esr ported stock cylinder, waiting for rebuild when my son gets a little older

Offline Michael88R

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2020, 09:55:00 PM »
OEM paint on cases
PJ1 high temp rattle can on cylinder
Still has the rough casting texture.

I leave the boot rub marks on the stator cover to show I actually ride it. 
88’ R Esr 350 CEO, Esr trx5 pipe
88’ R Esr ported stock cylinder, waiting for rebuild when my son gets a little older

Offline evaneyeball

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2020, 10:29:18 PM »
i think you might be missing something to ride it starts with c and ends with hain.
LED built 86 trx 350 CEO
81 ATC250r
Zero finesse and alot of throttle

Offline Michael88R

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2020, 12:25:24 AM »
Ha ha.  Good eye. 
88’ R Esr 350 CEO, Esr trx5 pipe
88’ R Esr ported stock cylinder, waiting for rebuild when my son gets a little older

Offline broken1

Re: how to paint cylinder
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2020, 12:38:43 AM »
i think you might be missing something to ride it starts with c and ends with hain.

Haha I was writing something along these lines but you beat me to it.

 

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