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Author Topic: engine failure  (Read 13341 times)

Offline atvcrazy

engine failure
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2014, 10:22:00 PM »
Yz 490 rod on 4 mil crank and 78 mm ktm 380 flat top piston equals very small spacer plate with a pro-x or esr cylinder.  The piston pin height is very high in the piston skirt I believe around .775 from the top vs over 1" on the 86 250r piston like everyone uses on the big bore pistons.

Offline Quick310r

engine failure
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2014, 11:49:35 PM »
They always run the best right before they come flying apart......!    I watched your bike Saturday and it was running really hard, to bad that happened, maybe time to break out that saber....?

Offline johnny22

engine failure
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2014, 12:02:38 AM »
thats right quick310r.  haha i thought about it really hard and figured i barely have enough money to rebuild the 370 much less get the saber running and the chassis setup for it.

Offline etccb

engine failure
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2014, 10:15:58 AM »
Bummer johnny.

 Interesting rod info.

Offline Jerry Hall

engine failure
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2014, 11:19:49 AM »
Quote from: udontknowme;35160
stumbled upon this today. figured some of you want want to have a look


[video=youtube;fjgKtaX54gE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjgKtaX54gE[/video]


I do not like using any of the aftermarket rods unless I cannot find an OEM replacement.  If I have to make a choice I prefer Hot
Rods rod kits and cranks over Wiseco rod kits and cranks.

The premature failure of the crank in the video could have probably been prevented if the guy had checked the rod clearance before he installed the crank.  The break-in procedure he used would not add life to any crank that has good machine work with the proper internal bearing clearances.  No break in is required on good needle and ball bearings.  If the crank failed because the con rod bearing clearance were too tight, it could need a 100 hours or more of run time to get the clearances where they should have been when he installed the crank.

We measure and inspect all of this stuff before we use ANY new rod kit or new crank assemblies.  Our rejection rate for new OEM rods and cranks is less than 1%

Our rejection rate for aftermarket rods and cranks is around 30% to 40 %.  Are you going to be one of the unlucky ones that gets one of 30% sub standard parts.  Are you going to be one of the unlucky ones that buys one of the rod kits or cranks off Ebay or one of the online discount parts warehouses that liquidates the rejected parts.  The rejects are not crushed or thrown away They find there way back into the hands of the inexperienced shops and customers.  

I watched some videos of shops displaying their crank rebuilding skills.  One idiot pushed the crank pin all the way through both crank halves on a Honda tin can crank because he did not have the right tools to separate the halves.  This runs the crank pin hole that the failed pin was pushed through.

Another video shows an ill equipped shop where the guy is cutting the big end of the rod and crank pin in half using a disk on a die grinder

Another video I watched shows a guy truing a crank after pressing it together and only checking one end for runout.  You cannot assume that the other end is true because the end you checked is true.

Another shows a guy rebuilding a tin can crank using a nice crank assembly jig and not checking it for alignment or "trueness".  He said something like "the crank assembly fixture will usually get the crank within .003".  That is not close enough.  It could be your crank that he is working on.  

In another video, the guys that is rebuilding the crank says he heard on another video that you do not need to get the crank alignment any closer than .002".  This is another classic example of blind engine builders leading other blind engine builders.

I could not believe what I was seeing in most of these videos.  Are these guys trying to impress potential customers or trying to warn potential customers not send them work.

I think that these guys should be spending money on the correct tools for the job and not video cameras.  The time they are spending making videos would be better spent learning how to use the proper tools.  Maybe they should stop watching videos on ways to do substandard work and spend that time learning how to rebuild cranks properly!!!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 11:33:29 AM by Jerry Hall »

Offline johnny22

engine failure
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2014, 11:20:17 AM »
It is a bummer but after talking with mat it sounds like it'll be ready for the 4th. He's doing his best to get it done. I just have to hold up my end and get him paid

Offline udontknowme

engine failure
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2014, 08:05:40 PM »
the problem i have with hotrods is the rod might be incredibly well designed with the best material but it appears that its still connected to taiwan bearing and crankwheels.  so what good does that accomplish. not much imo.  maybe the hotrods rod would be a good atlernative to oe rod if its installed on honda crank wheels (perhaps with a prox made in japan bearing and crank pin) ?  i dont have that answer.

ive always considered prox rods close to oe in terms of qaulity. reason i use prox and not oe is because ive never found a place that sells cr500 oe rods seperate from the crank. you can buy every nut and bolt seperate but not a conrod. makes no sense
to much power is almost enough

Offline Jerry Hall

engine failure
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2014, 01:00:21 AM »
Quote from: udontknowme;35253
the problem i have with hotrods is the rod might be incredibly well designed with the best material but it appears that its still connected to taiwan bearing and crankwheels.  so what good does that accomplish. not much imo.  maybe the hotrods rod would be a good atlernative to oe rod if its installed on honda crank wheels (perhaps with a prox made in japan bearing and crank pin) ?  i dont have that answer.

ive always considered prox rods close to oe in terms of qaulity. reason i use prox and not oe is because ive never found a place that sells cr500 oe rods seperate from the crank. you can buy every nut and bolt seperate but not a conrod. makes no sense

The problem I have had with Hot Rod's connecting rods is the size of the big end of the rod are seldom the same.  Some come through with taper in the big end.  If you put a new rod or crank in and the one of the thrust washers fail prematurely it was probably because the bearing surface of the big end of the con rod was not straight.  The taper in the big end of the rod will cause the rod to move to one side and overload the thrust washer causing the thrust washer to fail.

Some of the new con rods big end are too large making the clearance too loose and near the service limit when we take them out of the box.

  Some of the new con rods are too tight and will fail almost immediately if the engine is run at sustained high RPM.  If they are too tight we can hone them straight and to the proper clearance if the customer wants to spend the money for us to fix Hot Rod's problem.  Hot Rod will not pay us to fix their mess and will tell you it was within spec when you send it back.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 07:48:46 PM by Jerry Hall »

 

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