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Author Topic: exhaust port issues  (Read 12510 times)

Offline C-Leigh Racing

exhaust port issues
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2014, 10:08:25 AM »
Quote from: udontknowme;47328
neil is these 2 arrows pointing at the areas you guys are talking about ?   the wristpin passing over the aux window and creating a small hole isnt that uncommon. hell even the newest generation ktm are like that. theres no way around it other than a narrower aux window or a plug in the wristpin. narrower windows arent good for power and a plug is a bad idea on a mass produced bike.  

on that same note, any machined out areas on the side of the piston for lightening purposes, should be done upwards and behind the wristpin, like in the pic you see a hole above and behind the wristpin. other wise it creates a much larger void, like the esr piston. as for any small hole down in the bottom corner, just drop the front corner of the piston down and the hole is eliminated, but from the pic it appears only about a .020" gap, which i find it hard to believe its causing much problem. but all eddie had to do was look at any modern ktm piston to see what needs to be done.  :friendly_wink:

Do you by chance, have an old used piston laying around like the new KTM in the pic ?, if so could you part with it.
Would like to do some measuring on one like that new one.

On the linking deal, in the second pic, where to two color arrow facing the main exhaust port is located. That whole area on the side of the piston in the drawing has been machined out, so to understand what is happening, take a piece of clear plastic & trace over the pattern on the side of the piston, cut it out & then drag it downward just like as if it was the piston on the downward stroke until it reaches the main transfer. Once you have the cut out at the main transfer, if you drag it any lower you can see the link between the aux exhaust port window & the main transfer. When those ports link on the downward stroke, fresh crankcase charge is being pushed out of the main, around the side of the piston & on out through the aux exhaust port in to the pipe.

On the upward stroke of the piston, the same linking is happening, but the returning wave of the pipe is pushing the spent exhaust back through the aux port & down into the transfer.
The biggest problem, is the part of the new fresh charge from the crankcase, being blown out into the exhaust early, which lowers the crankcase pressure when the transfers finely do open.
One other thing might be going on during this whole ordeal, if for some reason the exhaust pressure in the pipe was high, say like maybe the core in the silencer was broken loose & partly blocking the exit tip of the silencer. Sort of like the tater in the tail pipe or cat converter plugged.
If it was blow down creating the problem, then how much more than 32* of blow down would need to be added, 34~36*.

I think the fact, that theres fresh charge being blown out earlier than it should be through the linking process & then the fresh charge being lower pressure when the transfers finely do open, the charge flow up through the transfers, the duration not as long as it normally would be if it were not for the linking, so in turn you have a void to allow the backwards flow of the exhaust down into the transfer ports.

It might be that a pipe with a strong suction wave during that part of the stroke could help some of the problem, but when the pistons on that upward stroke, that returning wave is going to be doing its thing.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline C-Leigh Racing

exhaust port issues
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2014, 10:14:51 AM »
Does anyone have a pic, of the new ESR piston & then an old Pro-x to show the machining on the sides around the wrist pin hole. If so, we can see the difference between the two & kinda understand how much better the new ESR pistons are.

If you have a pic of a piston for the CR250R/TRX250R 85/86 year, that would be nice as well.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline hontrx265r

exhaust port issues
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2014, 11:11:36 AM »
There are some posts somewhere in the forum with those pics.

Offline C-Leigh Racing

exhaust port issues
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2014, 11:49:38 AM »
Yes, but good Lord finding them.
Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline F-Red

exhaust port issues
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2014, 11:50:00 AM »
Thanks guys! This is the information, a successful forum creates! :applouse:
Want To See My Wieners?

Offline udontknowme

exhaust port issues
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2014, 11:37:18 PM »
Quote from: C-Leigh Racing;47427
Do you by chance, have an old used piston laying around like the new KTM in the pic ?, if so could you part with it.
Would like to do some measuring on one like that new one.


Neil

what size piston you looking for ?
to much power is almost enough

Offline C-Leigh Racing

exhaust port issues
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2014, 08:51:34 AM »
Like 72mm & up would be nice, but the KTM not that big. It dont have to be a good or reusable one, just need to measure the machining, location of everything. If seized, that wont make any difference.
Thanks, Neil
C-Leigh Racing, in memory of Caraleigh Pritchard
Race team for 2015
Chuckie Creech #25 TRX450R, Pro, Pro Am, Pro Am Unlimited
Andrea Creech # 25 TRX450R, Womens (National ATVA EDT)
Andrea Creech #33 TRX350R, Womens (local EDT)

If it aint got a hot weed eater 2 stroke engine, all its good for is a pit bike

Offline udontknowme

exhaust port issues
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2014, 07:21:58 PM »
i have one laying around like the pic in #25 post . its vertex brand at 72mm.  the pic above it is the wiesco version, i do have one of these also but its installed in the engine.  the wiseco version is similar to the vertex but with some minor differences. obviously the cutout area above the wristpin is different and the dipdown area in the side skirt may be alittle different as well but its hard to say without looking at both pistons side by side. they are flatop dome and have a sqaurish shaped cutout on the intake side. like a cr500 but more sqaure. something else to keep in mind, because the ktm cylinders are plated and were never intended to be bored larger, the piston is only offered in 72mm. so you wont have a bunch of extra oversizes to choose from. i can let you borrow this vertex i have but i will need it returned. the reason is because im using it for a project of my own, although its not honda related. if you want a used piston to keep then i can talk to one of my aqaintances that does ktm rebuilds and have him send me a used one, then i can send it to you, chances are it would be vertex brand however. it would be free other than a couple dollars shipping but i dont know how soon he could get me one. might be a week or maybe a month. its hard to say. so you can borrow this vertex if you want. myself i always use wiseco but unfortunatly i dont have a spare wiseco to send you and i have no clue where you would get a cheap used one. possibly ebay maybe. also i dont have a spare wristpin to send but it uses just a standard 18mm
to much power is almost enough

Offline udontknowme

exhaust port issues
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2014, 01:07:38 AM »
neil i sent a email to my piston guy to see what used stuff he has sitting around. let me see what he says first. if hes got one then ill be able to get you one of your own to keep so mine wont need to be shipped back and forth
to much power is almost enough

 

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